Studying Tonbeiquan and Taijiquan at the same time

[AnotherMonkey]

Training Tongbeiquan and Chen Shi Taijiquan (Chen ZhaoKui lineage) at the same time. Do you think that makes sense?
Both seem very interesting arts, but I am not sure if the body mechanics are too different and thus shouldnt be learned at the same time since it can confuse the body and make it not adopt the way of moving correctly.

What do you think?

[jonathan.bluestein]

Ask the teachers. That is best.

As a general rule of thumb for all traditional martial arts, it is better to not engage in the study of a new art until one has spent at least a few years (in my opinion 4-7) in the diligent practice of the previous art. By diligent, I mean daily. Main reason is actually that it takes several years (at least 3) for the tendons and muscles to adapt to the unique structure of a traditional art, and then still more time is needed for the rest of the body and mind to wrap themselves around the art well enough that the transmission of knowledge is 'stable' and less affected by other types of training. Once the art is 'set' within one's body, then it is safe to learn another since the body will not tend to do too much mixing between the methods. One can then control how much mixing is being made, so in the learning process of the second art there is not an overt 'interference' of the previous art, until sufficient skill is acquired to make mixing efforts that will work well for you.

Also consider that for most people it is impossible to seriously train in two traditional systems at the same time. In my experience, to maintain this and still progress well while learning these arts, you need at least 3-4 hours of daily training.

I know that Marin Spivack, disciple of Chen Yu (same lineage as yours) is of the opinion that no art should be practiced while still in the learning process of Chen shi Taiji Quan - told me so himself.

All that being said, I think Chen Taiji and Tongbei make for a most wonderful combination if done right.

[vagabond]

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure tong bei is waaaaay more simple than most any tai chi, although I'm only personally familiar with shi pai. I know qi pai gets a bit more complex. Basically though we consider it a training wheels style.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. My tongbei has tons of drills for mobility, supple strength and power. I've never met a tong bei head who doesn't hit like a truck; many people struggle with tai chi for years only to end up with the martial ability of a sock puppet. On the other hand, the "internal" training in Chen may be way more, well, immediate for lack of a better word. We have 9 "postures" in our tong bei, and the day I started messing with San ti I felt more sunk and more connected than I had yet.

I think the questions you should ask yourself are, how many hours in a day? And, are my prospective teachers willing to collaborate on a curriculum so im not working against myself? But my advice would be to pick the method and teacher that suits you now, and strike up a friendship with the other.

[Fa Xing]

Considering there's evidence that Tongbei is one of the primary arts thought to have been drawn from for the original Chen family martial arts, I don't think you'll have too much of an issue. I have often learned multiple arts at the same time, and when you realize movement is movement then you will pick up things easier.

[yeniseri]

Considering there's evidence that Tongbei is one of the primary arts thought to have been drawn from for the original Chen family martial arts, I don't think you'll have too much of an issue. I have often learned multiple arts at the same time, and when you realize movement is movement then you will pick up things easier.

It is an excellent combination. There are teachers out there who try to obfuscate by not teaching stuff but the better practitinoners will always overcome obstacles, regardless..!
I try to make life easy for those who do taijiquan by recommending shuaijiao as a reality check whereby the latter can invigorate/strengthen the usually limp aspects of what we call taiji today and make it into its former lost self. peng,lu, ji, an, etc with nian (stick/adhere/listen/and other stuff can be made into live practice.

[Yeung]

Chen Shi Taijiquan is known to be closely associated with Hong Dong Tongbeiquan 洪洞通背拳.

[Josealb]

I dont know about Taiji, I would love to learn some Tongbei some day. I've heard it goes beautifully with xingyi, as it develops the stepping more.

[Steve James]

Fwiw, I would "begin" with the Tongbei for a while. Jonathan's suggestion of 4-7 years is fine, but the time is up to you. Sure, you could learn TCC simultaneously, but at best it'd cut the amount of time you have for practice either in half. And you'll probably be able to progress 2x as fast if you focus on one.

It also comes down to your goals. Do you want to know two arts? Do you want to be proficient at a martial art for a particular reason? Do you plan one day to teach? Do you have a lot of time to learn and train?

[Bao]

So and so many hours put in practice can't be translated into so and so much more understanding or a certain speed of development. Two styles does not mean half the speed of learning.

True knowledge is a plant that need to be watered, nourished. You can't rush it, you can't pull it to grow faster. Practicing too much is often more detrimental for progress than practicing too little.

Understanding and undergoing progress is not only about time and amount of practice, it's about a mental progress and about a certain programming for the nervous system and muscle memory that occurs 24/7, regardless how little or how much you practice. Just as long you practice regularly and have the dedication to develop.

Practice however you wish, whatever you want, whatever you can. Exploration, creativity, imagination and responsibility is ten thousand times more important than listening to rules and blindly following the words of a teacher. Make your own decisions and make the decisions your own.

Who could say what person you will be tomorrow? Who can say what is best for you or what art or what teacher can show you the best road to development, self-knowledge and confidence? Grasp what you can and make the most of it. The wings are yours, no one else can tell you how to fly them.

[Ozguorui]

Compatible. Maybe easier to learn sung, dantien movement etc. with Tongbei methods rather than tai chi methods.

[MaartenSFS]

If your goal is to learn how to fight I'd choose the teacher that is most likely to get you there. If they both fight I'd go with Tongbeiquan first.

[Fa Xing]

Considering there's evidence that Tongbei is one of the primary arts thought to have been drawn from for the original Chen family martial arts, I don't think you'll have too much of an issue. I have often learned multiple arts at the same time, and when you realize movement is movement then you will pick up things easier.

It is an excellent combination. There are teachers out there who try to obfuscate by not teaching stuff but the better practitinoners will always overcome obstacles, regardless..!
I try to make life easy for those who do taijiquan by recommending shuaijiao as a reality check whereby the latter can invigorate/strengthen the usually limp aspects of what we call taiji today and make it into its former lost self. peng,lu, ji, an, etc with nian (stick/adhere/listen/and other stuff can be made into live practice.

Shuai jiao or any type wrestling is really a perfect compliment to any type of CMA. I have seen some stuff, and know quite a few teachers who have studied Shuai Jiao alongside other styles, and usually they tend to be the better fighters IMHO.