Burning palm vs phone book

[windwalker]

[Split from Alex's "Chu Ka..." thread to prevent further derail]

[Dmitri]

we used to slap a phone book held against another's chest, in testing the practice of what was called "burning palm"
a hand print would show up on the others persons chest

If I may clarify what you're saying, just to be 100% sure there's no misinterpretation or misunderstanding on my end...
You had person A stand with a phone book against his chest, then person B would slap that book, and then person A would have a hand print appear on his chest?

[windwalker]

we used to slap a phone book held against another's chest, in testing the practice of what was called "burning palm"
a hand print would show up on the others persons chest

If I may clarify what you're saying, just to be 100% sure there's no misinterpretation or misunderstanding on my end...
You had person A stand with a phone book against his chest, then person B would slap that book, and then person A would have a hand print appear on his chest?

yep,,,made by I would say broken blood vessels below the skin.
very distinct.

the pain from being slapped directly was quite intense
in most cases the person on the receiving end would not be able to use
what ever was slapped.. it would go numb from the pain and not be usable.

I should mention that the way it was trained was not really good nor healthy for the hand.
only one was trained....I know others have used different methods and say they have not effected the hand
I only can comment on how and
what we did long ago...

part of the process was essentially cooking the hand in jow,
and then going through various conditioning drills ect.

[GrahamB]

we used to slap a phone book held against another's chest, in testing the practice of what was called "burning palm"
a hand print would show up on the others persons chest

If I may clarify what you're saying, just to be 100% sure there's no misinterpretation or misunderstanding on my end...
You had person A stand with a phone book against his chest, then person B would slap that book, and then person A would have a hand print appear on his chest?

For the record, that's nothing - I used to write my phone number on my palm, then slap the telephone book and it would dial my mobile.

Pppfffffft! You're a bunch of amateurs.

[Josealb]

we used to slap a phone book held against another's chest, in testing the practice of what was called "burning palm"
a hand print would show up on the others persons chest

If I may clarify what you're saying, just to be 100% sure there's no misinterpretation or misunderstanding on my end...
You had person A stand with a phone book against his chest, then person B would slap that book, and then person A would have a hand print appear on his chest?

I had to reformulate that exact question in my head when i read him, just to be crystal clear. For every anecdote or personal experience someone tells others, it will always fall into 1 of 3 categories: Its either false but the person believes it due to flawed perception (and vice versa), a flat lie or an absolute truth. Im pretty confident we can eliminate the first one, due to him doubling down on his answer.

[phil b]

we used to slap a phone book held against another's chest, in testing the practice of what was called "burning palm"
a hand print would show up on the others persons chest

If I may clarify what you're saying, just to be 100% sure there's no misinterpretation or misunderstanding on my end...
You had person A stand with a phone book against his chest, then person B would slap that book, and then person A would have a hand print appear on his chest?

I had to reformulate that exact question in my head when i read him, just to be crystal clear. For every anecdote or personal experience someone tells others, it will always fall into 1 of 3 categories: Its either false but the person believes it due to flawed perception (and vice versa), a flat lie or an absolute truth. Im pretty confident we can eliminate the first one, due to him doubling down on his answer.

I recall a story about a respected iron palm teacher that said if he slapped your chest, the palm print appeared on your back. I've never seen this done, nor the phone book one that WW talks of, but are they possible, I'm not sure.

[Bao]

A master shows his new students how to slap someone on the chest. First he puts his palm on his senior's chest to show the area. Then comes the phone book, then the slap. The phone book is taken away and there is the mark on the chest.

Easy to do by putting certain chemicals on your hand and then lie your hand on someone's body before slapping the book. This is quite a common trick for shows and for some teachers to lure in new students who pay them a massive amount of money to learn the secrets. Of course, the practice itself is too painful for the student so he'll quit soon by himself. Easy trick, easy money.

Of course, I can't tell if this is true for what WW speaks about. I think you need to be there to be able to judge by yourself.

Btw, this is about the same chemicals people use to light paper on fire with their hands only. Can't remember what it's called, but it's certainly not very healthy stuff.

[Dmitri]

Could it be some sort of a stigmata effect?

Also possible that the person was slapped prior to the test, and the print showed up a bit later/after the test...

Just trying to find any rational explanation, since this seems physically impossible -- unless that phone book was 5 pages thick.

[Franklin]

while training one time years back
i slapped a training partner (not too hard because at the time he did not complain about it)
about 24 hours later a black and blue clearly defined hand print appeared on his body...


i have heard stories about the hand print through a telephone book for years
never seen it myself...
(but i think we also have to remember- that back in the day
were telphonebooks as thick as the yellow pages...
actually are there even still telephone books?)

[Bao]

Could it be some sort of a stigmata effect?

Also possible that the person was slapped prior to the test, and the print showed up a bit later/after the test...

Just trying to find any rational explanation, since this seems physically impossible -- unless that phone book was 5 pages thick.

Maybe I wasn't too clear? There are several different chemicals that will leave a mark if put on the body. Use it on your hand and press it gently on someone's body, a red handprint will soon appear. A very simple sort of magic trick.

First you show where you are going to strike by putting the hand on the chest, the chemicals will soon do it's work. Then strike the phone book. Take it away and there's a mark on the body.

[windwalker]

really not much point in commenting more on this.
surprised about it being moved.

this like "Chu Ka various inch force - push, shock penetrate" mentioned in the post
is just another specialty hand which apparently just from reading the post most either don't know about
or have not come in contact with.

The phone book test was one way of testing on another
with out damaging the person to much....

The point was not the hand print, that was one effect.

The point was that with the hand trained as such, it was /is a show stopper.
what ever was hit, would go numb, and depending on the level of the exponent,
those hit would not be able to continue to engage
due to the pain......which was quite intense

stopped training this long ago......

[windwalker]

since apparently we'er into moving post to prevent derailing threads
why not a thread on

"Male ritual combat is a specific behavior demonstrated by humans and other social primates"

[Dmitri]

The point was not the hand print, that was one effect.

I know, I was making it a (different) point, because I can't picture any realistic scenario in which a slap would create a clear, or even a remotely recognizable, palm print on the other side.

About halfway through this (short) video they stab a book with a blade, full force. The amount of pressure that generates is incomparably greater than anything a human palm, burning or otherwise, can possibly produce.

https://youtu.be/Cg4dIiSbmIQ

For a slap to leave a print, that is simply a physical/mechanical impossibility.

I also don't think you're lying about it, which is why I'm curious as to what actually happened there.


Have you done this to someone yourself? And if yes -- are you 100% sure they weren't hit prior to that, first (i.e. without the book)?

[windwalker]

The point was not the hand print, that was one effect.

I know, I was making it a (different) point, because I can't picture any realistic scenario in which a slap would create a clear, or even a remotely recognizable, palm print on the other side.

About halfway through this (short) video they stab a book with a blade, full force. The amount of pressure that generates is incomparably greater than anything a human palm, burning or otherwise, can possibly produce.

https://youtu.be/Cg4dIiSbmIQ

For a slap to leave a print, that is simply a physical/mechanical impossibility.

I also don't think you're lying about it, which is why I'm curious as to what actually happened there.

Have you done this to someone yourself? And if yes -- are you 100% sure they weren't hit prior to that, first (i.e. without the book)?

wow,,,I don't even know how to address this.

Yes, I've done it many times it was one way in which it was "tested" with out injuring the other person "to much"
yes it was a US phone book at the time, and yes a hand print complete with all 5 fingers would appear.
I would say made by broken blood vessels
under the skin.

In usage people would get hit, and stop what ever they thought they where doing...
the pain was quite unique the part hit or slapped would go numb...In most cases it would cause
a person to drop their guard, should they try to continue if they could leave them open to anything else..

lets review gen out line details left out:

condition the hand while standing on bricks....
soak the hand in jow, as hot as one can take
as I mentioned it seemed like the hand was cooked in a way..

test it

repeat

there is a detailed program about how this is done
and what to do....needless to say not something anyone is going to mention on the net....
many teachers will not even teach this aspect anymore

others also use the same type of test

One of the tests for this involves the use of a thick phone book. The receiving student holds the phone book over their belly and the striking student hits the phone book and their palm print has to appear on the receiving student’s belly. Healing methods for many of the energetic strikes are included

https://www.clearsilat.com/kuntao/iron- ... r-179.html

I hesitate to use the site understanding now the focus will be on the teacher
the purpose was to show that this is a way of testing , and there are specialty hands that not
many apparently are unaware of.

as for it being mechanical impossible I would suggest that you might outline why you think this is so...

or better yet go find someone teaching or who knows iron plam, its more common and let them try it on you....

[Dmitri]

as for it being mechanical impossible I would suggest that you might outline why you think this is so...

Well, layered sheets distribute the force over a larger area. When you hammer a nail into a thick book, the (incredibly high) pressure eventually gets dissipated and there's no way there would be a "dot" on the other side of the book from it. It would be a circle that is many, many times larger than the nail point's surface area. So whatever the force your palm brings (much less than that of a hammered nail BTW, esp. considering the pressure/difference in the surface area), I would expect it to be dissipated in a similar fashion, so if you do see anything at all on the other end of the book, it would be a large roundish shape -- but definitely not each finger imprinted cleanly.

or better yet go find someone teaching or who knows iron plam, its more common and let them try it on you....

If there was someone close enough (without having to pay for plane tickets), I definitely would.

OK I just did a little experiment -- sat on the floor, put a thick book on my calf, and hit it full-force with a 28-inch kali stick. Twice, in two different places. Second time I really let it have it. If the palm print thing was possible, I would expect to see distinct linear imprints on my skin, since I don't think anyone can make their fingers hit harder than I can hit with that stick. But there are no such imprints. (And I've always been relatively easily bruised, and I'm sure that condition doesn't improve with age.) I definitely felt the hits, and I actually do see a red line -- but it is almost perpendicular to the stick's orientation; it goes across the shinbone where it comes closer to the skin -- looks like the (force applied to the) book compressed that area of skin against the bone, causing some light bruising.

FWIW