train connective tissue over a long period

[Rhen]

The only opinion I'll take fascia advice from is a doctor (maybe Dr. Fish can educate us) or someone with a high level degree in something medical or physical therapy related, not a pseudo science martial artist who doesn't have a degree in anything medical.

[jaime_g]

[

The only opinion I'll take fascia advice from is a doctor (maybe Dr. Fish can educate us) or someone with a high level degree in something medical or physical therapy related, not a pseudo science martial artist who doesn't have a degree in anything medical.

Many doctors, personal trainers, and physical therapists cant say anything useful for an internal martial artist.

Middleway's approach is excellent and I'd take his opinion on fascia development over many many guys.

[middleway]

The only opinion I'll take fascia advice from is a doctor (maybe Dr. Fish can educate us) or someone with a high level degree in something medical or physical therapy related, not a pseudo science martial artist who doesn't have a degree in anything medical.

Hmmm rather aggressive response for some reason. Fair enough I guess

Maybe go ask them then. But you just disqualified world champion level coaches like coach sommer or strength and conditioning experts like pavel or poloquin. Good luck with that approach.

Firstly, suggesting reading further is not really 'fascia advice'

Secondly, you know my education? Have we met?

Third, a pseudo science martial artist? That really couldn't be further from what I am.

I will jump back on here when I complete my anatomy and physiology qual in the next month or so if it helps?

Cheers.

[middleway]

WindWalker. Thanks. That blog will be getting shut down soon as I am moving my focus away from the internal arts and the ipt name in that formate

Thanks

[origami_itto]

WindWalker. Thanks. That blog will be getting shut down soon as I am moving my focus away from the internal arts and the ipt name in that formate

Thanks

So how long do I have to read the entirety of it before losing access forever?

[middleway]

So how long do I have to read the entirety of it before losing access forever?

The blog will be there another couple of months. And some of the articles with be transfered but slightly rewritten.

Thanks

[Rhen]

[

The only opinion I'll take fascia advice from is a doctor (maybe Dr. Fish can educate us) or someone with a high level degree in something medical or physical therapy related, not a pseudo science martial artist who doesn't have a degree in anything medical.

Many doctors, personal trainers, and physical therapists cant say anything useful for an internal martial artist.

Middleway's approach is excellent and I'd take his opinion on fascia development over many many guys.

No worries and apology if I came across cynical. probably because of the fascia mis-information going on in the martial arts community. I'm suspect of this elastic force from years as a massage therapist and martial artist.

[middleway]

No worries and apology if I came across cynical. probably because of the fascia mis-information going on in the martial arts community. I'm suspect of this elastic force from years as a massage therapist and martial artist.

No problem. Thank you for the appology. I completely understand and appreciate your skepticism and there are indeed many others more qualified than myself to go too for the deeper level details about this material.

Happy training
Chris

[Fa Xing]

The only opinion I'll take fascia advice from is a doctor (maybe Dr. Fish can educate us) or someone with a high level degree in something medical or physical therapy related, not a pseudo science martial artist who doesn't have a degree in anything medical.

Perhaps you missed my post, and credentials, but what do I know.

[everything]

Was writing this in response to someone's knee pain thread but it makes a lot of sense from an IMA pov of "train your tendons" and "power in your tendons not your muscles":

some general notes from Tim Ferriss podcast w Coach Sommer (USA mens gymnastics national coach in the past; has produced elite athletes) that probably apply to your case:

- it takes 260 some days for soft tissues like ligaments and tendons to heal.
- you should NOT be doing much exercise in the meantime.
- you need to train these tissues BEFORE ever adding resistance and muscle exercise (if you get strong in a way that is imbalanced or stresses these connective tissues, you are just making your condition worse).
- you actually need to (when you are ready) put some of these tissues in slightly bad alignment in a gentle, progressive way to condition them (such as those knee rotations some people do not like) since that is going to happen in your chosen sport (although the ph and bjj went too far). if you only ever keep "neutral spine" you really don't condition the connective tissues.

The progression of all this is incredibly slow. heal with rest for a long time. start adding in very light plyometrics. do not do "strength" training for muscle belly before your joints are in good condition. probably cannot do ph or bjj for a long time. Pretty much that sounds JUST LIKE the typical traditional IMA method of conditioning doesn't it?! It's not a f**** con, it turns out. It makes sense. According to Coach Sommer that's how you build up international level gymnasts over a very long period.

This is really interesting and comports well with my own personal experience healing from ligament and tendon injuries.

I just had the opportunity for the first time in several years to train with a friend who is very skilled with baguazhang and who emphasizes the centrality of tendon training in the way all of the baguazhang movements and postures are practiced, including exercising appropriate care and timing after any injury. His body attests to the truth of the Ferris/Sommer material above.

Definitely injury makes one more appreciative of the care and timing.

At the extreme opposite end of the spectrum, powerlifting technique as borrowed from bodybuilders seems to emphasize very heavy weight at partial ROM. Maybe someone could go into that a little.

[everything]

The only opinion I'll take fascia advice from is a doctor (maybe Dr. Fish can educate us) or someone with a high level degree in something medical or physical therapy related, not a pseudo science martial artist who doesn't have a degree in anything medical.

Perhaps you missed my post, and credentials, but what do I know.

Fa Xing - just read your credentials. Normally I don't do that LOL.

Could you comment a little on tendon training using powerlifting technique in "partials"? I assume one would do that AFTER having a very good base in everything else. Side note: I do not want any extra muscle mass (cannot really gain it anyway) as I mostly need to be agile and light with a small amount of power (playing soccer). Once I rehab I am mainly interested in agility/bursts of acceleration and deceleration. Thanks.

[Fa Xing]

The only opinion I'll take fascia advice from is a doctor (maybe Dr. Fish can educate us) or someone with a high level degree in something medical or physical therapy related, not a pseudo science martial artist who doesn't have a degree in anything medical.

Perhaps you missed my post, and credentials, but what do I know.

Fa Xing - just read your credentials. Normally I don't do that LOL.

Could you comment a little on tendon training using powerlifting technique in "partials"? I assume one would do that AFTER having a very good base in everything else. Side note: I do not want any extra muscle mass (cannot really gain it anyway) as I mostly need to be agile and light with a small amount of power (playing soccer). Once I rehab I am mainly interested in agility/bursts of acceleration and deceleration. Thanks.

Well, typically you would do partials for only 1 of 2 reasons, either you are a beginner and you can't do the full movement, or you are attempting to work through a particular sticky point in a lift. In terms of tendon strength, you want to allow adequate time to adapt (say 3 months at least), don't add weight too quickly (maybe 5 lbs every training cycle) and keep reps and sets relatively low, 3-4 sets of 1-3 reps at 80-90% max. This will also negate any type of hypertrophy response.

After you've recovered, I highly recommend my mentor, S&C Coach Robert Dos Remedios' CHAOS (https://www.coachdos.com/store/dvds/cha ... ining-dvd/) training program for developing proper acceleration/deceleration speed. I need to do this myself as well, I was much faster when training with that. You can google some stuff on it as well, but that DVD will have the goods.

[Gus Mueller]

At the extreme opposite end of the spectrum, powerlifting technique as borrowed from bodybuilders seems to emphasize very heavy weight at partial ROM. Maybe someone could go into that a little.

You mean the powerlifting that bodybuilders borrowed from powerlifting which predates bodybuilding? And you think standing upright is "partial range of motion"?

[everything]

Fa Xing thanks will do.

Gus, not sure

[Peacedog]

We do use partials in Hermetics to train the electric and magnetic currents as part of our fascia training system.

I've also seen the use of weights, usually rocks, to train the fasciae in the heavy training method of ziranmen. Although in that case it was used as a static hold or fairly slow controlled movement.

Finally I've seen xing yi people hold a jar of ball bearings in san ti for the same purpose.