Taijiquan in MMA and Sanda

[origami_itto]

Looks like Sifu Adam Mizner has produced a couple champs.

I'm not sure what exactly the competition is, but they just announced two of his guys won their respective events.

Congratulations to our champions, Curtis Brough for winning the "Stick and hit" heavyweight championship and Ramzi Nabulsi for winning the MMA heavyweight championship at the FIOCA world mixed martial arts competition! The Heaven Man Earth seniors were the only Taijiquan practitioners in the competition.

One of the pictures is quite fantastic, the opponent is falling off the platform in a fighting stance with a very confused look on his face.

[windwalker]

Looks like Sifu Adam Mizner has produced a couple champs.

I'm not sure what exactly the competition is, but they just announced two of his guys won their respective events.

Congratulations to our champions, Curtis Brough for winning the "Stick and hit" heavyweight championship and Ramzi Nabulsi for winning the MMA heavyweight championship at the FIOCA world mixed martial arts competition! The Heaven Man Earth seniors were the only Taijiquan practitioners in the competition.

One of the pictures is quite fantastic, the opponent is falling off the platform in a fighting stance with a very confused look on his face.

na couldn't be

[Subitai]

Great job for those guys, but some observations just from looking at the FB post:

Looking at the photos you get to see at least one version was on a Lei tai (elevated stage) and the other seems to be an even smaller area square on the floor. What that means is a major strategy is to knock someone off our out of the ring. That's totally fair.

Having fought these ways myself, I can say that I wouldn't necessarily equate this with MMA, at least not in the modern sense. Sure it could be MMA in the sense that it's Mixed Martial Artists (styles) competing against (VS) each other. But it becomes a different goal oriented game when the option to send a guy off the stage or out of the "Box" is a better way to score.

By that I mean, when you fight MMA in the modern sense, you're really trying to either Knock out your opponent or get him to tap or give up. True, it can go to the cards...and the act of falling off the lei tai does cause you to lose that round but it also saves you from being submitted or knocked out and you have to opportunity to reset and start again. When you're in a cage you're not afforded that luxury.

Those guys are wearing head gear and gloves but I seriously wonder what the rules are in this "stick and Hit" game? Can you really take it to the head?

Also, just looking at the Mugs of those two students...I can almost GUESS (guarantee) that they have learned/Trained in other (harder style) martial arts in concert with their Tai Chi. I highly doubt that they've only learned Taiji in their lives.

In that regard of course I agree...as I've quoted from other people as well = "Taiji makes what ever other art you're doing better". It's a good thing for these guys and their hard work.

[windwalker]

By that I mean, when you fight MMA in the modern sense, you're really trying to either Knock out your opponent or get him to tap or give up. True, it can go to the cards...and the act of falling off the lei tai does cause you to lose that round but it also saves you from being submitted or knocked out and you have to opportunity to reset and start again. When you're in a cage you're not afforded that luxury.

Whats the point, they weren't in a cage and fought according to the rule set.
Is there a problem

Isn't the point of winning not losing, does it matter whether one can be knocked out, submitted or not?

It seems very clear just from the still pics that they seemed to adhere to the their training with a stylistic
flavor that looks very clear. More clear then in the many ph hand matches that do not that are supposedly the
way taiji is used. It would be interesting to see any clips of the action...

[Subitai]

What's the point??? We're allowed to express opinions aren't we?

I thought I was pretty clear when I said "that I wouldn't necessarily equate this with MMA, at least not in the modern sense...." more stuff after...

MMA, It's in the title of the thread...and if you really read my post it's about my observations.

My opinions are based upon my personal belief that those guys didn't JUST USE TAIJI only. Which, is in the title of the the thread. Again, I'm making an observation.

Why is that a possible issue...you can get a tough student from another style and teach him some Taiji rules...but does it really mean he won because of his Taiji?


Ultimately, I said: "It's a good thing for these guys and their hard work." Believe me or not, I meant that as a compliment.

[windwalker]

My point maybe not so clear.

That all competed using the same rule set. I used to judge ph comps, what you've mentioned is true in that many from other styles
would come learn the rule set and win...which is the point. To win.
Not a fan of ph comps, nor an advocate for them.

I feel they've done a lot of damage to the art,,just my opinion.
yes all can express an opinion, maybe I was not so clear in expressing mine.

[origami_itto]

Adam's description of his method is the creation of a taiji creature.

[Subitai]

When you see a title like "Taijiquan in MMA and Sanda" ... it can lead people to believe that Taiji is all you need to fight MMA and Sanda. I would highly disagree.

My post is a word of caution...to be wary of thinking that only Internal principles were used to win matches like those.

I know that allot of combined skills are what it takes and it's not just one sided.

[windwalker]

Past history would not support that statment.

It was a point of reference in fact that stylistically the fighter held to the style
they represented. .

Maybe this is true for present, as was pointed out in another thread that often people don't reach the levels of
past masters of the art. They feel the need to supplement their training with other things.

The same argument can be made for any CMA style, that they don't do well or are not
represented in Sanda, or MMA which I would say have evolved into styles of their own.
I thought the pics showed some clear skill as shown,
it would be interesting to see some clips.

[origami_itto]

I thought the pics showed some clear skill as shown,
it would be interesting to see some clips.

This is Ramzi last year.

[windwalker]

I thought the pics showed some clear skill as shown,
it would be interesting to see some clips.

This is Ramzi last year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i-gLlwhIYQ

It was a point of reference in fact that stylistically the fighter held to the style
they represented. .

nice the tradition continues

[Gus Mueller]

One of the pictures is quite fantastic, the opponent is falling off the platform in a fighting stance with a very confused look on his face.

Not much of a "fighting stance" and face not visible. Another tall tale from Billy Bouncer, about a picture which he shows in the same post. Eventually he will plead riot-suppressing induced Aspergers.

[Dmitri]

Googling "the FIOCA world mixed martial arts competition" returns nothing of substance.

Can someone point me to their website?

TIA

[Subitai]

I thought the pics showed some clear skill as shown,
it would be interesting to see some clips.

This is Ramzi last year.

Ok, i'm really trying to be objective here but it doesn't take a martial genius to see the big guy in the video is literally taking the fall.

Especially that last fall at around 45secs????? Seriously... I could take a freshman from my local high school wrestling team and he could have that same dude falling just as easily. Without taiji

Objectively viewing...this would be a much better example of a guy not taking a fall, but instead he had no choice:


I agree that Taiji can be excellent in an MMA or Sanda venue...but done right.

[windwalker]

Googling "the FIOCA world mixed martial arts competition" returns nothing of substance.

Can someone point me to their website?

TIA

"FIOGA"



seems like an interesting start.

https://allevents.in/org/federation-int ... ga/4279888

FIOGA was official established on 28 December 2011 under the Societies Act 1966. FIOGA is an association for sport of martial art. The establishment of FIOGA is dedicated to the promotion and development of the sport of martial arts worldwide.

The objective of FIOGA is to expand & diversify the development in sport of martial art; to foster technical excellence; the establishment of communication, friendship, understanding and harmony among member chapters; the development of the minds and bodies of members; the promotion of global understanding & personal growth; and to improve the public's awareness and image in the sport of martial arts as a whole and give it the credibility and exposure that it truly deserves.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/fioga11/about/

Forewords
In the past, there is no any international standard for the Martial Art Associations around the world in issuing certificates. The issuing of certificates is just by own association and personal view and is not recognized internationally. Certificates have lost its value due to the fake and unrecognized certificates. Furthermore, there is a lot of Martial Art Associations has misused the title “Grandmaster” and it has lost its non-culture value.

I think this will be hard to do but wish them luck.