Tai Chi as an eccentrically-biased movement patterns

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Tai Chi as an eccentrically-biased movement patterns

Postby Yeung on Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:15 am

“Finally, it is possible to capture the potential benefits of eccentric exercise using
an individual’s body mass during functional activities (e.g., hiking downhill) or when
performing eccentrically-biased movement patterns (e.g., Tai Chi). The eccentric loading
stems from the individual’s body mass and the activities or movement patterns are
designed to progressively transfer more of an individual’s body mass over a single leg in
an eccentric fashion. With downhill hiking the knee and hip extensors are performing
negative work with each decelerating step. Traditional movement exercise like Tai Chi
allows individuals to progress the exercise eccentrically when the hip and knee flexion
range of movement is increased and/or the speed in which the movements are performed
is slowed. Further, functional weight bearing activities like moving from standing to
sitting can be employed as an eccentric activity.” (Eccentric Exercise in Rehabilitation: Safety, Feasibility and Application, Journal of Applied Physiology · July 2013)
Last edited by Yeung on Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tai Chi as an eccentrically-biased movement patterns

Postby yeniseri on Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:32 am

Excellent!
Even baquazhang (though a little more complex) employs a similar set of movement patterns, the Emory University study with tai chi as a base intervention was able to lead in the conceptual analyses towards this 'eccentrically biased movement pattern). Interestingly Yang style was the intervention that showed this foundation. ;D
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Re: Tai Chi as an eccentrically-biased movement patterns

Postby everything on Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:12 pm

What muscle is lengthening in this eccentric movement? Thigh as you lower a stance? Doesn't seem like anything else is a "negative". Seems like Jefferson curls are needed to balance the other side of the legs.
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Re: Tai Chi as an eccentrically-biased movement patterns

Postby yeniseri on Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:14 pm

Below segments are exerpted from the below link:

http://www.attainmentcompany.com/sites/ ... rticle.pdf
A main reason why one adapts postures based on the present mobility of individual student.

VARIED PLANES OF MOTION
Tai Chi movements can be practiced as uni-, bi-, or multiplanar motions. For
example, the movements/postures can be performed with reciprocal (backward and
forward) or rotational arm motion. The modified movements can be performed
either standing (doing arm or leg movements) or sitting (arm and trunk movements),
depending on a performer's level of physical mobility.

ISOLATED OR INTEGRATED SEGMENTS
When a full Easy Tai Chi movement practice is perceived to be too difficult for
seniors with various physical impairments, the movements can be broken down into
component parts (e.g., single-arm vs. two-arm movement, upper body vs. lower
body movement). For example, a single-arm (or -leg) circular movement can be
practiced initially to accommodate those who are physically frail or who have
mobility limitations. As the client progresses or becomes more functional, the
movement can then be integrated into two-arm (or -leg) movements and be
performed in a coordinated manner. Similarly, a lower extremity movement
without upper extremity involvement (isolated movement) can be performed. This
can be followed by integrating arm and leg movements, that is, upper and lower
extremities following one another, with the torso acting as one unit (as is done in
traditional Tai Chi).

NO-IMPACT WEIGHT BEARING OR NON-WEIGHT-BEARING
Although Tai Chi movements are normally done in a semisquat (low center of
gravity) position for better training effects, this can be modified in clinical (training)l situations
requiring remedial or rehabilitative therapy. For example, seniors with a history of
knee injuries might be initially encouraged to keep their center of gravity high (legs
straight) while practicing movements. As strength, neuromuscular control, and
range of motion improve with practice.................
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Re: Tai Chi as an eccentrically-biased movement patterns

Postby Yeung on Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:50 am

everything wrote:What muscle is lengthening in this eccentric movement? Thigh as you lower a stance? Doesn't seem like anything else is a "negative". Seems like Jefferson curls are needed to balance the other side of the legs.


Thank you for the example of Jefferson curls, similar can be used in the 19 form of the 24 forms: needle at sea bottom. But one must learn various torso movements in Taijiquan and not just wave the arms such as bending forward stretching the back and hamstrings with chest and abdomen relaxed, and stretch the abdomen and quadriceps to raise up to do the next form, etc.
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Re: Tai Chi as an eccentrically-biased movement patterns

Postby everything on Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:53 am

For "art" sure. Just curious about the eccentric aspects, pun not intended!
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Re: Tai Chi as an eccentrically-biased movement patterns

Postby Yeung on Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:05 am

yeniseri wrote:Excellent!
Even baquazhang (though a little more complex) employs a similar set of movement patterns, the Emory University study with tai chi as a base intervention was able to lead in the conceptual analyses towards this 'eccentrically biased movement pattern). Interestingly Yang style was the intervention that showed this foundation. ;D


You mean their fall prevention study in 2004? But like most studies it does not have a standard variable to differentiate from other interventions. So, eccentric movement in Taijiquan might be useful to differentiate in further studies.
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Re: Tai Chi as an eccentrically-biased movement patterns

Postby yeniseri on Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:15 pm

On of the researchers, Dr Wolf (and colleagues) utilized the Romberg Test to see if the subject is able to ambulate within his present state of being. A modified version is used in test to see if drunk drivers are able to drive or not. By testing proprioception (balance) and its domain against / within / and validated through some level and type of movement training, a comparator intevention can be ascertained within the boundaries of said intervention. The FICSIT study did some abbreviated minor studies involving this and you should be able to google it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romberg%27s_test
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Re: Tai Chi as an eccentrically-biased movement patterns

Postby Yeung on Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:36 pm

The performance capacity of a muscle or a muscle fibre is usually
greater when it is lengthened while being activated (eccentric
contraction) than when it shortens (concentric contraction) (Edman,
1988; Herzog, 2014; Katz, 1939; Morgan et al., 2000). The
realization of this potential in vivo, however, depends on the
intensity of the motor command sent by the nervous system. Indeed,
the magnitude of muscle activation depends on the number of motor
units (ensemble comprising a motor neurone and the fibres
innervated by its axon) that are recruited and the rate at which
they discharge action potentials (Duchateau and Enoka, 2011;
Heckman and Enoka, 2012). A number of studies during the last few
decades have established that the control strategy employed by the
nervous system during a lengthening contraction differs from those
used during shortening and isometric contractions (Duchateau and
Baudry, 2014; Duchateau and Enoka, 2008; Enoka, 1996).

From: Journal of Experimental Biology (2016) 219, 197-204 doi:10.1242/jeb.123158
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Re: Tai Chi as an eccentrically-biased movement patterns

Postby yeniseri on Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:17 pm

Certainly!

A long form Yang style (> 20 min 2-3x/day can surely remodel bone when form is done at a high to medium height based on the functional capacity of the individual.
NOTE: Actually, thre were only 8 basic postures that provided the semblance of physical therapy (PT) rehabilitation and elements of walking occupational therapy (OT)

Wolf's law is applicable. See also osteogenic loading. As was mentioned in the conclusion of some taijiquan studies, taijiquan is not for everyone due to interest, bias, or other cultural expectations, or lack. If someone finds tai chi repulsive, too slow, etc despite the positive benefits, they would not be interested in participation. Ordinary exercise, some degree of weight lifting, Pilates, etc for those individuals with no interest in tai chi can find some degree of benefit. Just general walking will show some benefit so anything to counteract lack of activity, sarcopenia, a sedentary lifestyle, etc is a great start.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolff%27s_law
Last edited by yeniseri on Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tai Chi as an eccentrically-biased movement patterns

Postby Yeung on Sun Nov 27, 2016 4:45 am

If Tai Chi is an eccentric exercise than is the other exercises you mentioned also eccentric?
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Re: Tai Chi as an eccentrically-biased movement patterns

Postby yeniseri on Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:41 am

Yeung wrote:The performance capacity of a muscle or a muscle fibre is usually
greater when it is lengthened while being activated (eccentric
contraction) than when it shortens (concentric contraction) (Edman,
1988; Herzog, 2014; Katz, 1939; Morgan et al., 2000). The
realization of this potential in vivo, however, depends on the
intensity of the motor command sent by the nervous system. Indeed,
the magnitude of muscle activation depends on the number of motor
units (ensemble comprising a motor neurone and the fibres
innervated by its axon) that are recruited and the rate at which
they discharge action potentials (Duchateau and Enoka, 2011;
Heckman and Enoka, 2012). A number of studies during the last few
decades have established that the control strategy employed by the
nervous system during a lengthening contraction differs from those
used during shortening and isometric contractions (Duchateau and
Baudry, 2014; Duchateau and Enoka, 2008; Enoka, 1996).

From: Journal of Experimental Biology (2016) 219, 197-204 doi:10.1242/jeb.123158


The elements you referenced do appear in varying degrees in Yoga/Pilates, baquazhang and similar activities.
All activities require the use of the muscles with a neurological/propioceptive elements (attention, body adjustment, etc) so one would probably start with the gross (large, extended) movements) then as others domains are strengthened (muscle degrees of movement) then movements will get smaller (refined, better sensory awareness, "better" balance) creating homeostasis in the long run.

The strategy is not unlike some qigong or even taijiquan (traditional) ;D "systems" where when you start off, everything is clumsy but as you progress you begin to refine said movements over time.
Though yangshengong systems do not reference a wellness or modern frames of structure, it is heavily ingrained in them because of, and in spite of a lack of a modern methodology of teaching and understand. Yin/yang, jingqishen, san bao, etc lacks a current reference so these things get discounted and even dismissed under to confusion.

The concept of full/empty (shu/shi) in stance projection/placement does seem nonsensical but if you add the concept of Wolf's Law, you understand that this is positive for balance (generally speaking) and bone growth.
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Re: Tai Chi as an eccentrically-biased movement patterns

Postby Yeung on Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:23 pm

I am suggesting that the variable is eccentric muscle contraction which has explained why "The performance capacity of a muscle or a muscle fibre is usually greater" in Taijiquan, etc. The concept of shu/shi is not full and empty, it is the transfer of the body weight between 0 and 100% in a passive stance, sinking eccentrically.
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Re: Tai Chi as an eccentrically-biased movement patterns

Postby yeniseri on Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:38 pm

Yeung wrote:I am suggesting that the variable is eccentric muscle contraction which has explained why "The performance capacity of a muscle or a muscle fibre is usually greater" in Taijiquan, etc. The concept of shu/shi is not full and empty, it is the transfer of the body weight between 0 and 100% in a passive stance, sinking eccentrically.


The following therapeutic elements were identified in (FICSIT study) taijiquan on interventions to reduce frailty in elders:
· continuous movement, performed slowly
· small to large degrees of motion depending on the range of motion and strength capabilities of the individual
· Progressive knee flexion performed with as much as 70% of weight on one leg, then shifting to the other leg so that the majority of lower extremity strengthening is expected during loading of the predominant stance limb
- straight and extended head and trunk positioning as a prerequisite for promoting a less flexed body posture.
· Trunk, head and extremity rotation with movements performed in a circular fashion. NOTE: Eyes follow the hands thus promoting head and trunk rotation through eye movements
· Symmetrical and diagonal arm and lower extremity movements to promote arm swing ing, gait and increase trunk rotation above the waist.
· Unilateral weight bearing/shifting between lower extremities to emphasize displacement of body mass and/with controlled single limb support

DEFINITION: It is understood that shu/shi is the transfer of weight based on posture meaning full posture of 1 leg implies 100% placement which is dangerous for those with balance problems. Old taijiquan books mention full/empty in a vague manner without matching to present anatomy/physiology but that has been a problem with taijiquan training, as a rule. So the last point of "unilateral weight shifting is a starting point in 'sensing some level and type of problem with balance and addition of strengthening muscle exercises (quadriceps, hamstring, etc. Even walking slower (awareness) is part of a continuum of "eccentrically biased movement patterns"
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Re: Tai Chi as an eccentrically-biased movement patterns

Postby Yeung on Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:30 pm

When performed correctly and safely, eccentric exercise may have several benefits including:
• Improved muscle coordination
• Improved balance
• Less cardiovascular stress than intensive concentric actions
• Increased strength in the entire range of motion of each joint
• Increased strength across a variety of movement speeds
• Increased muscle power and sport performance
• Recovery from tendon related injuries
https://www.acsm.org/docs/brochures/ecc ... f?sfvrsn=4
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