Safe teaching

[willie]

Ya but...
looks pretty good to me for pre-ufc stuff.

[Steve James]

Alls I know is that if you're injured in training, you'll be less capable if you actually need it. Other than that, dojos and kwoons are some of the safest places one can be

[Bao]

(Origami Itto:)You perfect your own structure and that allows you to influence their structure.

I don't feel it's completely necesarry to "connect" to someone's center. You can work on a limb or a finger and the center is going to go along for the ride.

Li Yaxuan:

"Even before physical contact, with a single glance you join contact with the opponent or partner, establishing a firm connection with him. Adherence can begin even at this stage, prior to physical contact. This is important because when you are working in a more intensive competitive or combative mode, if you depend on physical contact to start your adherence, that’s too late and you’re going to be too slow to exploit any advantage of timing or positioning."

If you are concerned only about your own positioning without regard to the other, maybe you will be able to withstand a push. But in a real confrontation, you have no idea what the other person will do. You need to care for the distance and angle to the opponent even before he advance to an attack. ... This is why I won't buy the attitude of being in rule of one's own center is enough. Everything in a combat happens in a relationship between two physical bodies, contact or not contact.

[origami_itto]

(Origami Itto:)You perfect your own structure and that allows you to influence their structure.

I don't feel it's completely necesarry to "connect" to someone's center. You can work on a limb or a finger and the center is going to go along for the ride.

Li Yaxuan:

"Even before physical contact, with a single glance you join contact with the opponent or partner, establishing a firm connection with him. Adherence can begin even at this stage, prior to physical contact. This is important because when you are working in a more intensive competitive or combative mode, if you depend on physical contact to start your adherence, that’s too late and you’re going to be too slow to exploit any advantage of timing or positioning."

But are you necessarily connecting to a "center"? It's a matter of semantics at a certain point.

If you want to lift a mass directly through brute force, no matter what shape or size it is, you have to apply force in a vector through its center of mass.

If you are turning one thousand pounds with four ounces, that's like leading a bull by the ring in his nose, not connecting to his center to knock him off balance.

If you don't connect in some way then you can't affect your opponent, connect can mean a lot of things other than "to the center"

If you are concerned only about your own positioning without regard to the other, maybe you will be able to withstand a push. But in a real confrontation, you have no idea what the other person will do. You need to care for the distance and angle to the opponent even before he advance to an attack. ... This is why I won't buy the attitude of being in rule of one's own center is enough. Everything in a combat happens in a relationship between two physical bodies, contact or not contact.

That's an understandable perspective. It seems like there is some subtext there though.

I don't think anyone ever suggested forgetting about an opponent existing. I could be wrong

[Peacedog]

I suspect a valid way to look at the original question of the thread is simply that if you are teaching fighting, between young guys with unearned egos and accidents people will sometimes get hurt. If no one ever gets hurt, then people aren't training very hard.

I think a big difference exists between that and a teacher who intentionally hurts his students.

Going at it hard is how most people learn to apply force. Between bad luck, mismatched skill levels and guys with a case of the ass people get unintentionally hurt.

Without really going at it periodically most people never get there.

It is a balancing act in terms of functional training. And aside from regularly scheduling harder levels of sparring I'm not sure a better answer exists.

[Bao]

But are you necessarily connecting to a "center"? It's a matter of semantics at a certain point.
... If you don't connect in some way then you can't affect your opponent, connect can mean a lot of things other than "to the center"

From distance, I don't know any other way than adjusting angle and distance from center to center. Some teachers might speak about the angles of the hips to the other opponent's hips, some people speak about the distance of dantian to dantian, yet others speak about centerline. But it's all about the center. On contact, you still adjust center, but we focus on contact with the opponent's root through the center. Well, that's the theory at least and what we strive for. If you don't have the awareness of distance and angle before contact, everything you try to do will be harder to do. IME, not having this connection before contact means that your timing more or less automatically will be off. I am not saying it's all easy. Sometimes I as well forget adjusting angle from a distance and being aware of distance. But it's a rewarding method, something well worth practicing.

[richardg6]

Safe Teaching?

jonathan.bluestein wrote:
They are forced to read from that book. Among those who haven't read about the arts in either that book or from other sources, I will choose one individual each class and that person will wash everyone else's cups. Message is clear - no reading makes you end up as a dishwasher (always lots of cups to wash since we drink green tea all the time).

If any of my student does not want to compete in tournament, I won't teach him. One of my student's student had trained for his tournament, During the tournament time, he was afraid and did not get into the ring. No matter how nice his technique may look during his black belt test, he didn't pass his black belt test because he broke his promise - compete in tournament.


Intelligent, well informed, talented, lacking in the civil side.

[wiesiek]

..."3. Training drills, practices are just that. Training. They have their purpose of imparting principles across to a learner without, hopefully, any mishap or injury. As long as all parties understand this, then there should be no problems or confusion. And, I think that was very clearly stated also.

As for the "nobody could do anything to him" comment, it simply looks like the student in question completely missed the point of #3: understanding that it is training,..."

I seriously injured /unintentionally/ ukes two times during the trainings. They wasn`t greenhorns, just simply forget , that it is just training, and were trying avoid the clean throws for all cost. /broken elbows/ ...
so
most important point is - student attitude,
in subitai example - uke SHOULD landed on his arse or get elbow/wrist dislocated if somebody was able to deliver the goods.
We are training MA, and even if it is >gentle art < student with "hard arse" attitude may get hurt.
that`s all