the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

I think we can settle this debate with a single observation.

Jake Mace is fit as hell.
(watch to 22secs for maximum groans)

Patrick wrote:There is no confusion. Motor fitness (as health factors) is specifically defined and can be measured.

Cardio vascular system: VO2max
Endurance: lactat steady state
Strength: Fmax
Explosive power: ΔF
Flexibility: ranges of motion
etc.

You're completely leaving out sport-specific conditioning. The OP was talking about fitness FOR fighting/competition I believe. These are only measures of general conditioning. I know plenty of people in the kinesiology department that have higher VO2maxs, MLSS, 1RMs, flexibility, etc, that no nothing about how to move with another person.

To my knowledge research hasn't been done on fitness characteristics of good IMA practitioners (but I'm working on it!).

The question IMO, shouldn't be, "Do I train IMA skill OR just get in shape?" But rather "how do I select and balance training regimes that make me better at IMA?"

For me, it's three basic parts:

1. General Conditioning (weights/resistance exercises for general strength and explosive power)
2. Sport Specific Conditioning (IMA exercises practiced for endurance in a fight/competition)
3. Skill Training (Push hands/sparing/wrestling/drills/etc)

The right balance of those three is probably different for every person and will also likely change throughout someone's lifetime.

My 2 cents.

What has been described as being fit, will not help one to meet the type of fitness that taiji requires.
It starts out with the wrong premise about the what is being developed the how and why.

You either got it or you don’t; when you do it will manifest itself in many other things that you do.

like daily activities that some have mentioned
The crux of the matter is time, one can use their time to be “fit” in the general sense of the word
or one can use it to train to be “fit” in accordance with taiji principles.

For many they never achieve the true level and doubt it when presented in this medium.
This is confusion which is generally cleared up when one

Finds an IMA teacher with real skill sets

[/quote]

Exactly Haole boy!
See you in Taiwan!

You're completely leaving out sport-specific conditioning. The OP was talking about fitness FOR fighting/competition I believe. These are only measures of general conditioning. I know plenty of people in the kinesiology department that have higher VO2maxs, MLSS, 1RMs, flexibility, etc, that no nothing about how to move with another person.

To my knowledge research hasn't been done on fitness characteristics of good IMA practitioners (but I'm working on it!).

Sure, there are slight differences. But this does not really negate my point. The most important point is that "fitness" of an IMA practitioner cannot be something completely different than that of a MMA athlete or of a tennis player. Fitness is fitness. There will be naturally differences in the distribution, e.g. one may have better active kicking flexibility (Taekwondo) or another better grip strength (Judo). The training for fitness is on a foundation level the same.

Does your sport require high max power outputs? -> focus on intramuscular coordination training.
Lacking in absolute power? Then increase your muscle mass - >hypertrophy training
Does your sport require rapid alterations from aerobic to anaerobic endurance and intensity levels? (e.g. MMA rounds)-> Competition akin endurance methods, Fartlek, HIIT
etc.
Does your "sport" require your postural stability to adapt rapidly to outer disturbances? (e.g. Pushing Hands) Use reactive stability training methods.
Which attribute is needed in your sport? Choose best method to enhance it.


The tactical/technical skills are then still something different. But they are not the same as motor fitness.
(e.g. Jack Mace)

The most important point is that "fitness" of an IMA practitioner cannot be something completely different than that of a MMA athlete or of a tennis player. Fitness is fitness.

Yes, being "fit" means being prepared for the activity expected. But, I think there's a bit of confusion in the discussion that equates "fitness" with huge biceps and six pack abs or that aerobic fitness is the same as anaerobic fitness. However, anyone who's ever watched one of those mainland Chinese tjq competitions will agree that the contestants are more than "fit." They'll disagree on whether it was tjq.

Anyway, it's possible to say that if you can do whatever you need to do for as long as it takes, then you're as fit as you need to be.

windwalker wrote:

why are the arts degrading so fast?
who says they are?

Not enough foundation work.
Not enough basic IMA work.
Too much talk.

Read the wiki entry about Ma Gui.

He moved like the wind, almost weightless because his approach
to Bagua was like that of a lumberjack. Tough and no-frills.

If you train hard you'll only think of bedtime and steak and potatoes after training instead of VO2 Max. and fitness, that is little time to look for outside IMA training.

How much you concentrate and put the right effort in order to train correctly.

The mind is EVERYTHING. No need to flex your beautiful muscles and look for magic pills if you are training the way the old masters did.

Training is 24/7, non-stop! Your own mind is the biggest enemy you'll ever face.

According to him, the wrong exercises and practices will produce the wrong kind of conditioning and you'll make no progress. Until a base level of conditioning has been achieved you'll make no progress. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25517&start=60

Which is what most have been saying here. Its not a matter of being fit or not.
It is a matter as to what type of fitness one is trying to achieve enabling one to
achieve what ever skill set it depends on.

Can you consider yourself "fit" if you can't

- run 5 miles with good speed,
- carry weight with your arm and on your shoulder?

What kind of Taiji master will you call yourself if you can't even get a job in the farm land?

Taiji masters don't need to run

Steve James wrote:Taiji masters don't need to run

Our body are built to perform some functions. We have to meet the average requirement before we can consider "high level" training. IMO, RSF is getting further and further away from the real world.

johnwang wrote:IMO, RSF is getting further and further away from the real world.

Well... You don't post often here nowadays. So you might have a point there.

Bao wrote:

johnwang wrote:IMO, RSF is getting further and further away from the real world.

You don't post often here nowadays.

Everything that need to be said had been said. There is no need to repeat the same thing over and over again (such as "push"). No matter how nice party that RSF (and Empty Flower) may have, soon or later that party will end and people will leave.

In Yangtze river, the back wave will push the front wave. The front wave will crash into the river bank. That's the way history will always repeat.

aww
it is your most nostalgic posts

Most IMA posts feel like made by a giant meme generator.

"you did not meet a real master"
"past master could do unbelievable stuff, but I choose to believe..."
"Fitness=Bodybuilding"
etc.