The Aiki Singularity

[Chris Li]

An interesting new book from Scott Meredith on internal power conditioning and Aiki that connects Yukiyoshi Sagawa to the internal martial arts of China - available on Amazon.

Best,

Chris

[cloudz]

Interesting.. Pretty prolific writer isn't he, I'd be interested where his knowledge of Aiki is coming from and what you Aiki guys think of this work.
Not so long ago I read transparent power about Sagawa, great read and fascinating Martial artist, as he's mentioned and i am interested in Aiki this book does have some appeal to me.

Will be nice to hear some RSF reviews.
And i notice the acronyms are still there... whoopie..

[Rabbit]

Is this the Segawa that taught Dan and Roy?

[jaime_g]

Is this the Segawa that taught Dan and Roy?

[windwalker]

THE AIKI SINGULARITY deconstructs and reassembles the hidden energy that unites all internal martial arts training, and teaches radically simple experiential methods for understanding and maximizing the universal power.

Has he achieved what he writes about?
If so who acknowledges this?

[Rabbit]

Thanks Tom - very interesting

[snafu]

So, the big question on my mind is, what are Scott Meredith's connections to Sagawa? There are strong claims made about Sagawa and the relationship of his work to Chinese martial arts made in the summary that is available on Amazon.

If Scott Meredith is making these leaps based on what is only the second-hand information we all have, we have strong reasons to believe that information is suspect and incomplete based on Sagawa's own statements about his secretiveness and not teaching people in his own dojo. So, what is to convince us that this book can prove the connection between Sagawa's work and CMA?

If anyone has purchased the book, does it answer these questions?

All I've got to go on is what he's posted in his blog posts here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us

The blog post doesn't shed much light on the connection and seems to be adapting an existing teaching framework for tai chi to superficial descriptions of Sagawa exercises.

I remain skeptical.

[Finny]

So, the big question on my mind is, what are Scott Meredith's connections to Sagawa? There are strong claims made about Sagawa and the relationship of his work to Chinese martial arts made in the summary that is available on Amazon.

If Scott Meredith is making these leaps based on what is only the second-hand information we all have, we have strong reasons to believe that information is suspect and incomplete based on Sagawa's own statements about his secretiveness and not teaching people in his own dojo. So, what is to convince us that this book can prove the connection between Sagawa's work and CMA?

If anyone has purchased the book, does it answer these questions?

All I've got to go on is what he's posted in his blog posts here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us

The blog post doesn't shed much light on the connection and seems to be adapting an existing teaching framework for tai chi to superficial descriptions of Sagawa exercises.

I remain skeptical.

Very good questions - and I think you're right to remain skeptical.

We have it from the man himself and all of his students - he didn't teach his own students, and openly refused to even entertain the idea of teaching foreigners.

[snafu]

More blog posts on "Cat Step Shiko":

Part 2 - http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us
Part 3 - http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us

It seems that the originals disappeared (aside from the Japanese versions of the blog posts, oddly), maybe because they were incorporated into the book? Cat Step Shiko is mentioned in the available table of contents.

[ctjla]

THE AIKI SINGULARITY deconstructs and reassembles the hidden energy that unites all internal martial arts training, and teaches radically simple experiential methods for understanding and maximizing the universal power.

Has he achieved what he writes about?
If so who acknowledges this?

Not that this will have any value whatsoever, but I've trained with Scott along with most notables in the Chen family (people like Chen XIaowang before he got famous, Chen Bing, Chen Xiaowang's top military student (not giving his name here), Chen Zhenglei, Zhu Tiancai, etc.). Went to Beijing, blah, blah. Also some very in depth Wu style.

Scott has something different. Can he display what he writes about? Yes. Will you like it or think it has value? He addresses that question in the introduction of most of his books.

Do I still train with Scott? If he shows up in the area, I'll go. Not following his curriculum or anything though. No student endorsements here.

[Rabbit]

One aspect I find interesting is the idea that if one has a base then the aiki is introduced, a transformational change in practice can be attained within months. Or was it more the case that the practice 'begins' to change from that point on?

[windwalker]

THE AIKI SINGULARITY deconstructs and reassembles the hidden energy that unites all internal martial arts training, and teaches radically simple experiential methods for understanding and maximizing the universal power.

Has he achieved what he writes about?
If so who acknowledges this?

Not that this will have any value whatsoever, but I've trained with Scott along with most notables in the Chen family (people like Chen XIaowang before he got famous, Chen Bing, Chen Xiaowang's top military student (not giving his name here), Chen Zhenglei, Zhu Tiancai, etc.). Went to Beijing, blah, blah. Also some very in depth Wu style.

Scott has something different. Can he display what he writes about? Yes. Will you like it or think it has value? He addresses that question in the introduction of most of his books.

Do I still train with Scott? If he shows up in the area, I'll go. Not following his curriculum or anything though. No student endorsements here.

Thanks for your answer, I agree he writes well.
which is one way of attaining fame.

[snafu]

THE AIKI SINGULARITY deconstructs and reassembles the hidden energy that unites all internal martial arts training, and teaches radically simple experiential methods for understanding and maximizing the universal power.

Has he achieved what he writes about?
If so who acknowledges this?

Not that this will have any value whatsoever, but I've trained with Scott along with most notables in the Chen family (people like Chen XIaowang before he got famous, Chen Bing, Chen Xiaowang's top military student (not giving his name here), Chen Zhenglei, Zhu Tiancai, etc.). Went to Beijing, blah, blah. Also some very in depth Wu style.

Scott has something different. Can he display what he writes about? Yes. Will you like it or think it has value? He addresses that question in the introduction of most of his books.

Do I still train with Scott? If he shows up in the area, I'll go. Not following his curriculum or anything though. No student endorsements here.

It's one thing to have "something", but it's another thing to stake a claim to knowing what Sagawa was doing, and present your own new unrelated teaching material as what Sagawa was doing. So, if in fact Scott's "something different" came from a lineage through Sagawa, then I would have no problems with the hypothesis of the book. If it did not come from Sagawa, and he just openly presented his material as his material without bringing Sagawa or the aiki buzzword into the picture, then I have no problems with that either. If he is making a guess and just comes out and says he is making a guess in the book, I would have no problem with that yet still.

But given the hyperbolic nature of the writing of his I have seen, I more worry that he is just shamelessly conflating the two things to target an audience that is so starved for information it will accept anything, even mislabeled goods.

i.e.

Of course, the ultimate vehicle for developing the energy of the Cat Step (which I call the ‘Cat Step Surge’) is still the full 37-movement sequence of Zheng Manqing Tai Chi.

But you'll be amazed to learn that you can fully achieve the internal energetic benefits of the Cat Step Protocol via the Sagawa shiko alone. (Other benefits of ZMQ37 would of course remain unavailable within the narrow scope of the Sagawa shiko exercise). I view this as an incredible breakthrough for internal martial arts training that I want to share as widely as possible.

[cloudz]

But given the hyperbolic nature of the writing of his I have seen...........

but dude The Surge (tm), don't you want to experience THE SURGE!!!

[Ashura]

Sagawa Yukiyoshi was a long-time student of Takeda Sokaku, the founder of Daito Ryu aikijujutsu. In terms of skill, Sagawa was probably at least on a par with Ueshiba Morihei. Sagawa maintained a small private dojo, very difficult to gain entry to as a student. He taught primarily because he needed bodies to continue his own shugyo and skill development, not so much because he wanted to teach or because he needed the money.

Sagawa Yukiyoshi is probably the person who spent most time traveling around Japan with Sokaku in the first part of the last century. Originally born in Hokkaido, his father ran a small but successful business there and Sagawa´s father was himself a student of Sokaku. As a matter of fact, the Sagawas were quite wealthy and could afford to "invite" Sokaku for long periods of time. Sokaku taught both Nenokichi and Yukiyoshi.

According to Sagawa Yukiyoshi, he understood the principle of aiki at 17 after extensive practice of the Aiki-age/Age-te exercice.



Sagawa stated that this achievement is the starting point of his martial career. Thanks to his wealth, Sagawa has been in a position to train throughout his entire life without beeing worried about finding a job or having difficulty making ends meet which is, of course, a perfect situation especially for somebody fanatic about Shugyo. After Sokaku´s passing and the end of WW II, Sagawa went underground and taught in a dojo attached to his house in Tokyo and seems to have been both extremely secretive in his teaching and selective in choosing students.

It might be a mere coincidence but Takeda Tokimune, the son and appointed successor of Sokaku, was also running a dojo, called the Daitokan, attached to his house and was also quite selective. He was living in Abashiri, northern Hokkaido in what was, at the time, a rather remote place. It seems that Tokimune tried on two occasions, 1954 and 1974, to pass on the Daito school to Sagawa, without success.

It is worth noting that while Sagawa was still alive, he was not known even in the Budo/Bujutsu community and that he kept a low profile and was not affiliated with Tokimune Takeda´s group or with any other. If Sagawa is known (and discussed) today it is primarily thanks to the efforts of one of his deshi, Kimura Tatsuo who wrote two books, the famous "Transparent power" translated in english and a second one "discovering Aiki, my 20 years with Yukiyoshi Sagawa Sensei" this book has only 48 pages translated into english but for those who can read french, a full version of the book with a lot of nice pictures and "advice" is available.

In Europe, Tokitsu Kenji was probably the first to talk about Sagawa. Tokitsu Sensei is both an accomplished martial artist and a researcher. About 20 years ago, he started translating some parts of transparent power.

Among Daito-ryu circles, Sagawa is generally considered as the most prominent figure. His skills were said to be extraordinary. Sagawa was also very critical of other Daito-ryu branches, including Takeda Tokimune´s one and did not get along with Ueshiba Morihei, the founder of Aikido. In substance, Sagawa claimed to be "the one and the only" belittling all of Sokaku´s deshi. This include men like Ueshiba Morihei, Takeda Tokimune, Yoshida Kotaro, Horikawa Kodo, Matsuda Toshimi and others.

Even though the hype around Sagawa is important, I think that his statements were incorrect. Sagawa might have been the "best" for what it worth but, as a matter of fact, his fellow practioner of Daito-ryu were indeed very skilled. There are now people from the Matsuda and the Yoshida branch who teach in the open and that display serious skills. I guess that what is to be found in transparent power should be taken with a a grain of salt.

In any case, the Sagawa-ha Daito-ryu Aikibujutsu, now run by Kimura Tatsuo has kept a low profile and even for people living in Japan, it is still very difficult to get accepted as a student.

Back to the original topic, I might end up ordering a book which could turn out to be a good read but as far as I know Sagawa never mentioned Taichi or any kind of chinese martial art. Sure enough, there are a lot of similarities in Daito-ryu aiki and Chinese internal martial arts. Interestingly, one of Sagawa´s deshi, Keisetsu Deshimaru studied Chinese martial arts after he left the Sagawa dojo. Some say that his skills got better after that since he could gain valuable information in CMA.