What do you do? Can you show me?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

What do you do? Can you show me?

Postby dspyrido on Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:47 pm

Imagine you have someone who:

- has trained in martial arts other than IMA
- genuinely wants to understand what you are training in & why you think it is different (open minded)
- wants to comprehend how this training is applicable to fighting & how it differs from non-IMA schools of thought
- would love for you to show how your method is applied on them

What would you say? What would you show?
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Re: What do you do? Can you show me?

Postby zhenwu on Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:27 pm

I would suggest "feeling"... Listening skill?
Awareness in "every" exercise.
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Re: What do you do? Can you show me?

Postby MaartenSFS on Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:35 pm

Assuming that I don't know this person, there are several "demos" I like to give;

1) Let them hold a pad and feel the penetration of my strike (and I'd do the same for them) - both whip-like palm attack and punching.
2) Ask them to stand in a very solid stance, feet a little more than shoulder-width apart, and [from zero distance and facing them) gently rotate my arm using the power of my waist to horizontally send them flying (then let them try it on me).
3) Then I'd ask them to stand in the same stance again, but this time I'd stand off to their side and take one step towards them (at a perpendicular angle) and send them flying, but pull their arm back for safety reasons.
4) Ask them to wear a helmet with face protection and charge at me with any attack and I only do Chuanzhang with my left hand and stab them in their [protected] face.

If they are still interested and not frightened I may then do a bit of Tuishou or Zhanshou (like a cross between Tuishou and Chishou) and demonstrate some stuff. If they are skeptical I go a bit harder (but never with fists) unless they have no self-control.

That or we just randomly start fighting... ;D
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Re: What do you do? Can you show me?

Postby Subitai on Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:18 pm

dspyrido wrote:Imagine you have someone who:

- has trained in martial arts other than IMA
- genuinely wants to understand what you are training in & why you think it is different (open minded)
- wants to comprehend how this training is applicable to fighting & how it differs from non-IMA schools of thought
- would love for you to show how your method is applied on them

What would you say? What would you show?


Just for clarification, do you mean from a distance for example over the internet or face to face? I'll assume the latter of the two.

Just read MaartenSFS post...that kicks a$$ :)
=========================================
* If we're talking face to face, for me:
I don't care what kinda kung fu we're talking about, in reference to being able to apply it...you have to be good at setting it up. Whether it's from push hands, stick hands, sparring or full contact ect. Every zone or arena has a methodology for setting up whatever style you're using.

I'd let his/her curiosity lead the way, I'd perform some Taiji for example and let them ask about whatever interests them. People will usually ask about things they find familiar or things that are totally wacky to them. It can lead to wonderful demos.

Then i'd explain their query and most importantly apply it or "Set it up" on them even when they know it's coming.

Also, i'd explain what I don't do. I'd explain what brainwashing is and that WOO WOO drinking the cool aid is not good.

Lastly, dealing with westerners ( of which i'm one btw) Many of them are just too into fantasy when it comes to kung fu. In reality the higher your level, the more simple you become in application. (the only difference is that a Masters use of fundamentals and knowledge / experience in using that simple move is HIGH)

I think lack of real fighting experience is the killer for most practitioners and students. Without this, they can fall prey to fantasy kung fu or even worse: They think that "IT COULDN'T BE THAT SIMPLE"..."IT HAS TO BE MORE". ::) Nothing could be further from the truth. Especially the IMA, it's usually the westerners that over do it and over complicate it.
Last edited by Subitai on Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What do you do? Can you show me?

Postby Bao on Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:12 am

dspyrido wrote:What would you say? What would you show?


I would just treat that person like someone coming to a beginners class, treat him as a beginner student and introduce the art as I would do for any beginners student.
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Re: What do you do? Can you show me?

Postby Josealb on Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:43 am

There's nothing to teach. I would just spar them within several separate contexts, like standing grappling only, defending only, just attacking and him trying to stop me, take down defense, trying to take him down, etc. Ask him how it felt after each one and explore differences and similarities with any martial arts they are familiar with, and how the training concepts and principles develop the skills, along with any unique qualities there may be in it.

If someone asks you about a type of food that they have never tried before, the worst thing you can do is treat them as a beginner, and start explaining how the ingredients work and how to begin cooking it. They arent interested in that. What they really want is to taste the final product first, and decide if they are interested enough to learn how it got there.
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Re: What do you do? Can you show me?

Postby RobP3 on Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:15 am

People phone, e-mail or ask on forums, the answer is always the same. Come and train in a class, they'd have the opportunity to see/feel/ask whatever they liked. We're not interested in "impressing" people with little tricks, just do the training. If it's for you then good, if it isn't for you, then that's fine too.
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Re: What do you do? Can you show me?

Postby BruceP on Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:18 am

dspyrido wrote:Imagine you have someone who:

- has trained in martial arts other than IMA
- genuinely wants to understand what you are training in & why you think it is different (open minded)
- wants to comprehend how this training is applicable to fighting & how it differs from non-IMA schools of thought
- would love for you to show how your method is applied on them

What would you say? What would you show?


We RSFers have it on good authority that very few of us here can actually represent the ideas of IT and IP on a conversational level - let alone a practical one. Almost everyone would just be showing some sort of transmogrification of those skills in anything approaching hard contact or uncomfortable pressure.

But tongue from cheek, I would show how intent is central to the learning, and neutrality to the training.

First, partner work is almost always hitting with power and managing impact. It lets both people appreciate the strength and intensity each is using at the time, relative to one another, and establishes trust.

Next, lots of intermediary work to dig into the methods of applied intent. A piece of rope, a medicine ball and a heavy bag can be used in various drills to understand how a person processes and perceives different types of conflict. In most of the drills, it's almost impossible to injure each other while going full-out. That strengthens trust.

Softer, solo work, and calm interactive stuff shows the depth of all that previous stuff. It lets them know that they bring something unique to the 'art' and that their current skill level is enough to apply the ideas while they work on the principles and methods. IMA is accessible to anyone delusional enough to try it.
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Re: What do you do? Can you show me?

Postby Bill on Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:10 am

Back when I used to teach I would tell them that they can attack me in any way they want to and then I'll show them what I do.
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Re: What do you do? Can you show me?

Postby daniel pfister on Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:37 am

What I do these days is introduce them to my "static hands" push hands exercise. Fixed stance, one hand on partners elbow the other on their chest. Keeping your hand on those two points of contact, try to get the other person to move out of that stance. Within those limits, both people can move however they like to win. This tends to demonstrate the power of the legs, waist, and structure in controlling another's balance. It's also a fun drill to do that can be taught to people much faster than some two-person set or specific "fighting" application.
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Re: What do you do? Can you show me?

Postby northern_mantis on Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:46 pm

Nice idea for a thread. It's good to see the details of training articulated, it's not that hard despite claims to the contrary.

My go to demo is one inch punch/short force done multiple ways. It shows that there is more than one approach and quickly demos attribute training through to technique training through to semi cooperative play. Basically the whole spectrum in a few minutes with enough showbiz to satisfy.
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Re: What do you do? Can you show me?

Postby dspyrido on Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:53 pm

Interesting responses.

To clarify: the objective of the question is not to promote or demo a school/class, trying to sell ima or to impress a noob. It is a face to face scenario involving a skilled open minded person (training partners even) who have little faith in cma (reasons should be obvious) so they stopped any exploration of them. They also have next to zero awareness of ima.

This has happened many times but it got me thinking - in answering these questions then this has the potential to explain (at least at a personal experience level) what you believe makes ima distinct from other arts.

In asking the questions I am interested in knowing if around the world the ima experiences widly differ or if there some common themes.
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Re: What do you do? Can you show me?

Postby greytowhite on Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:23 am

dspyrido wrote:Imagine you have someone who:

- has trained in martial arts other than IMA
- genuinely wants to understand what you are training in & why you think it is different (open minded)
- wants to comprehend how this training is applicable to fighting & how it differs from non-IMA schools of thought
- would love for you to show how your method is applied on them

What would you say? What would you show?


One of the first things I show is the rib power our art produces. Alligator from the Five Phases Linking set is usually what I'll demo. It's really soft, not a whole lot of outward movement, just looks like my arm is dropping but then BLAM! it shakes the person's whole structure. I'll then have them grab on to an arm to show differences between moving from gua, dantian, and ribs. It's... usually pretty enlightening. I showed my sister's friend who is a collegiate field hockey player the difference between the taiji dance she learned and the martial art I learned. She was surprised and somewhat upset that she wasted her time learning a dance.
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Re: What do you do? Can you show me?

Postby meeks on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:49 pm

dspyrido wrote:Imagine you have someone who:

- has trained in martial arts other than IMA
- genuinely wants to understand what you are training in & why you think it is different (open minded)
- wants to comprehend how this training is applicable to fighting & how it differs from non-IMA schools of thought
- would love for you to show how your method is applied on them

What would you say? What would you show?


why not just fight them? Or is this thread creating an assumption that everyone that practises IMA is waiting for the day lightning bolts shoot from their fingertips before they are ready to embrace combat?

What would someone that does NOT practise IMA do when posed with the same question? Why would it be any different? You want to see if anyone is any good, you cross hands with them, plain and simple.
"The power of Christ compels you!" *spank*
now with ADDED SMOOTHOSITY! ;D
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Re: What do you do? Can you show me?

Postby Trick on Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:06 am

dspyrido wrote:Imagine you have someone who:

- has trained in martial arts other than IMA
- genuinely wants to understand what you are training in & why you think it is different (open minded)
- wants to comprehend how this training is applicable to fighting & how it differs from non-IMA schools of thought
- would love for you to show how your method is applied on them

What would you say? What would you show?

Lucky me i have no real intention to teach, if approached by a person with the above mentioned intentions, i would most probably say go away ( in a nice way)
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