Breathing in Xin Yi Liu He

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Breathing in Xin Yi Liu He

Postby greytowhite on Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:36 am

Interesting. I've heard from lines of Liu He Ba Fa that they are told not to pay attention to breathing as well.

That said, we have several stages with breathing in the xingyiquan I am learning. Connecting the breathing to the movement is a beginner's phase and then the breathing is separated later on to prevent inner organ damage. Even though we practice certain things with breath separated from form or movement we are also working on breathing techniques seated or within still postures. Also there are times to connect and disconnect the body from the arms and/or legs when fighting only to bring them back again.
User avatar
greytowhite
Wuji
 
Posts: 688
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:33 pm
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Re: Breathing in Xin Yi Liu He

Postby origami_itto on Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:09 am

the way I've understood this is that, yes, in the beginning focus is placed on coordinating the breath with the movement, but not really.

Movement will affect, dictate, and control the breath naturally with no training whatsoever, and focusing on the breath helps to discover those relationships, not change them, but make them cleaner and more efficient.

The IMA training, in my opinion, is just getting rid of the tension and emotional blockages that inhibit the breath, and then forgetting about it so that the movements drive it as needed.
Last edited by origami_itto on Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
The form is the notes, the quan is the music
Atomic Taijiquan|FB|YT|IG|X|
User avatar
origami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 5033
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Palm Bay, FL

Re: Breathing in Xin Yi Liu He

Postby Ron Panunto on Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:43 am

Miro wrote:
Ron Panunto wrote:But there is nothing to learn, and no skill involved in separating movement from breath. That is the way we were born and naturally operate. IMA teaches one how to unite the breath with movement and intent.


Ron, we talked before so I know you are clever guy and serious practitioner, you have my respect. Therefore forgive me that I will answer by question: How do you know that there is nothing to learn, and no skill involved? Do not you think that if there are teachers teaching that way, there must be something in it?

Btw, do you consider jin a natural skill, something we naturally operate with (from the birth and also later)?


Just because teachers teach it doesn't mean anything, as there are miriad teachers teaching kong jin. And no, jin is not a natural skill, it must be learned and practiced. Have a Happy New Year Miro.
Ron Panunto
Wuji
 
Posts: 1310
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 6:33 am
Location: Langhorne, PA, USA

Re: Breathing in Xin Yi Liu He

Postby Steve James on Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:04 am

I think y'all are arguing about nothing. Breathing is not optional. How one breathes in training is one thing. I think there's certainly been a place for breathing exercises. Breath control is another issue, especially in a fight or contest; but, that's not the same as trying to coordinate every movement with the breath. In many martial arts, it's taught that one should breathe out when striking, for example. But, who says you can't punch while inhaling? It's certainly more convenient to not have to think about it, though, imo.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 21137
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Breathing in Xin Yi Liu He

Postby KEND on Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:24 am

I think there may be some confusion as to the process. The individual muscle groups are trained to produce a specific shock power. During these exercises the breath is abdominal and no attention is paid to it. At the moment the shock is released the abdomen tightens and breath is suspended. At no point while muscles are being trained is attention paid to the breath. Since some similar muscle groups are the same as used in breath confusing the two could damage the muscles and organs. The training of the muscles eventually are integrated into the neuromuscular system and are represented b[code][/code]y[ effectively like a computer icon] say up/down, open/close etc. The next phase uses specific form of breath to integrate the three tan tiens[head/chest/abdomen] energetically and physically. In this form directing intent up or down will produce the required result. This will eventually become automatic with body responding to external force vectors without thought.
I arrived at this by extrapolating from what I was taught and reverse engineering when a desired effect was produced rather than studying the sayings of the masters. As it happens, looking at Miro's input, we seem to have arrived at the same conclusion. The oral tradition and metaphorical approach often lead to individual interpretation. My research was over a period of many decades, IMA is not easy to learn even if you have a good teacher.
KEND
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:32 pm

Previous

Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Roll Back and 29 guests