Favorite Heavy Bag Combinations

[Steve James]

Well, watch Tyson training on the bag; then watch him in a bout.

[Bao]

Here’s a video of Stuart Shaw drilling peng and lu

Peng and lü? Where?

[windwalker]

Here’s a video of Stuart Shaw drilling peng and lu

Peng and lü? Where?

exactly

[marvin8]

Boxing is inherently restricted in its techniques, because of its rules. I am not advocating restricting oneself to boxing. Rather, using some of the ideas, expanding on them, discarding what's not useful and complementing your own style.

Here’s a creative use of the heavy bag, which includes more sticking, close contact, angles, etc.

@3:50 possible peng, lu situation (not exactly, but receiving and using energy).

Published on Jan 9, 2017
Here are some drills we do on the heavy bag to really make karate more practical.

We are a group on a mission to return Karate to its roots through the use of Kata as self-defense:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi06ecJSLt0

[origami_itto]

Here’s a video of Stuart Shaw drilling peng and lu

Peng and lü? Where?

exactly

Apparently peng means punch and lu means deflect... who knew?!

If someone can come up with a effective way to drill peng, lu, ji, an with apparatus and two hands, I would gladly pay through the nose for the secret.

[Steve James]

If someone can come up with a effective way to drill peng, lu, ji, an with apparatus and two hands,

The problem is that you're not going to get agreement on what peng is (as a technique), and if you do, people will argue about whether it's being used in an ima way.

Imo, it all depends on what the purpose to which the practitioner uses the bag. The heavy (100-200lb) bag simulates a human body in motion. True; it usually doesn't have arms, and it doesn't hit back; but it swings back and forth. So, if you watch Tyson, for ex., he generally forces the bag to move, then he moves around it. Of course, he hits the bag hard enough to make it move. Actually, afa tcc, using "shoulder" or "elbow" as part of heavy bag practice should be obvious --and I"m sure it is.

"Pushing" the bag, and then making it stop (using a blow by the body or a limb) is another way. Are there kicks in your form? They can be used too. None of these examples means that one simply bangs on the bag --though that's great exercise if you don't hurt your hands.

Afa peng, lu, ji (an is obvious as 'push,' but an ain't push (tui), and using it on a bag is not so obvious (imho fwiw). Rather than thinking in terms of the traditional energies, how about simply thinking of using ... Slant flying on a bag. Then, how about Embrace Tiger, Return to Mountain? Could they or some other forms be combined. Probably some can and some can't. It doesn't matter. My point is only that the heavy bag is just a moving partner/opponent. ...

[origami_itto]

The more I study the less I see it the way I saw it with regard to those kinds of things. You need four hands, period. You can work on some things on your own, foundation stuff, but without four hands you can only scratch the surface.

I can only scratch the surface, I should say. YMMV.

The stuff this guy starts getting into around 4:50 looks useful

[Bao]

"The problem is that you're not going to get agreement on what peng is (as a technique), and if you do, people will argue about whether it's being used in an ima way."

If you call "peng" something you do in your form when you use a relaxed whole body movement, coordinating your movements from the foot and up.... and then use your body in a whole different way on a person in a drill or when you hit a bag... you obviously shouldn't call that "peng". A very simple logic if you ask me.

If you say that something is a cat, but it looks nothing like a cat, maybe more as a dog or a fish, then I wouldn't take you very seriously, would I?

[C.J.W.]

My understanding of Peng is that it is an energy -- or jin -- that should be present at all times in your body as opposed to a fixed external movement. When done correctly, someone with no or weaker Peng-jin should be repelled or bounced backward when coming into contact with your body. That why I think of Peng-jin more as "what you are" rather than "what you do."

Having said that, I personally do not see any Peng-jin in the peng/lu drill clip that was posted earlier. It might be more suitable to call it a sensitivity/ arm-tapping drill.

[marvin8]

My understanding of Peng is that it is an energy -- or jin -- that should be present at all times in your body as opposed to a fixed external movement. When done correctly, someone with no or weaker Peng-jin should be repelled or bounced backward when coming into contact with your body. That why I think of Peng-jin more as "what you are" rather than "what you do."

Having said that, I personally do not see any Peng-jin in the peng/lu drill clip that was posted earlier. It might be more suitable to call it a sensitivity/ arm-tapping drill.

When I made my statement, I was thinking of peng as making contact, listening, sensitivity, resistance, then changing directions and finishing as one movement. Whether that’s correct or not, that’s what came to my mind, at that moment. I would rather have left that reference out.

Stuart Shaw and Gary Gee speak of condensing or making movements smaller for actual combat.

Published on Sep 22, 2015
In the Tai Chi Chuan classic treatises, eight basic techniques are mentioned. They are: Wardoff, Rollback, Press, Push, Pluck, Split, Elbow, and Bump. In Chinese (pinyin) they are referred to as: Peng, Lu, Ji, An, Cai, Lie, Zhou and Kao. In this video, Sifu Gary Gee demonstrates various applications that can flow from the sequence, Peng, Lu, Ji, and An:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpPTRXGcgbM

Here's using peng, then countering an opponent's resistance in Grasp the Sparrow's Tail.

Published on Feb 26, 2013
Standard applications of Grasp the Sparrow's Tail movements in the Yang Cheng Fu outdoor form:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juY9MVYSKQI

As far as using Peng (expansion energy) at one point of contact, do you have any video of a non-cooperative opponent, even one with weaker Peng-jin, being "repelled or bounced backwards" in a fight. Personally, I have never seen that out of all the videos I've watched of fights, push hands competitions, masters, etc.

Here’s a teacher using peng to stick, control and bounce, in a demonstration only:

Published on Dec 22, 2014
Lessons focus on pushing for loosening distribution Yi (mental) and points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASSGIvy6pwc&t=69s

Regarding heavy bag combinations, there are times when you can practice building power alone.

However, some time should be spent approaching your practice as if facing an opponent. This will help you develop the ability to apply and set up the power attacks, against a moving opponent. Also, it will train you to be defensively responsible.

[grzegorz]

Instead of a heavy bag hanging from the ceiling I have a XXXL Wave Master. Not sure how many Xs but it is the biggest and although some might not like the base if they enjoy working on kicking ankles I do like that is barely moves because I used to slap trees a lot but sometimes I would break skin due to a rough patch of bark and some trees are better than others but I prefer the Wave Master because I can slap it full power at anytime and my neighbors don't think I am anymore insane as they already do but I am sure if they saw me slapping trees they would assume I went full pyscho and probably hide from me.

[Bao]

My understanding of Peng is that it is an energy -- or jin -- that should be present at all times in your body as opposed to a fixed external movement. When done correctly, someone with no or weaker Peng-jin should be repelled or bounced backward when coming into contact with your body. That why I think of Peng-jin more as "what you are" rather than "what you do."

Peng as technique or posture is not the same pengjin and vice versa. They are two different things that are called the same thing. But you are correct, it should be there all of the time.
But first, before understanding pengjin, you must learn to not be stiff as wood. Just a general observation, not really addressed to anyone particular... sort of...

[C.J.W.]

My understanding of Peng is that it is an energy -- or jin -- that should be present at all times in your body as opposed to a fixed external movement. When done correctly, someone with no or weaker Peng-jin should be repelled or bounced backward when coming into contact with your body. That why I think of Peng-jin more as "what you are" rather than "what you do."

Having said that, I personally do not see any Peng-jin in the peng/lu drill clip that was posted earlier. It might be more suitable to call it a sensitivity/ arm-tapping drill.

When I made my statement, I was thinking of peng as making contact, listening, sensitivity, resistance, then changing directions and finishing as one movement. Whether that’s correct or not, that’s what came to my mind, at that moment. I would rather have left that reference out.


As far as using Peng (expansion energy) at one point of contact, do you have any video of a non-cooperative opponent, even one with weaker Peng-jin, being "repelled or bounced backwards" in a fight. Personally, I have never seen that out of all the videos I've watched of fights, push hands competitions, masters, etc.

I like the Gary Gee clip better than the peng/lu clip of Stuart Shaw. Gee's stuff has more CMA flavor and displays peng-jin in his structure. However, IMO, his Taiji applications are heavily influenced by his background in southern styles, namely Ng Gar Kuen. The ways he intercepts and parries with hand transitions have a distinct southern flavor. The Taiji applications I've been exposed to deal with incoming attacks using soft spirals and sticking, which are supported by peng-jin.

When I mentioned people being bounced backward and repelled upon contact, I wasn't talking about the type of fake, exaggerated responses that we see in many silly "Taiji master" videos. I was referring to the natural reactions of someone when they make physical contact with a trained individual who possesses stronger peng-jin.

Just to illustrate my point, here's an example of what I meant -- starting at around 3:45.

[vadaga]

I usually use a hanging bag a
Single palm with the lead hand followed with a knee
Lead-> cross->hook or lead->cross-> horizontal elbow with the lead arm
I also like using the heavy bag for clinching and throwing knees, weaving and using shovel hooks and elbows that sort of thing
While remaining in control of breathing, I tend to hit it as hard as I can as for me it's more a tool to build up strength and conditioning rather than finetuning my tingjin

[windwalker]

A lot has been mentioned of somehow using a bag or other inanimate object to improve one's “tingjin” listening skills.
The only thing one can listen to is ones' self using this method.