Put Fajin into your Jabs!

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Put Fajin into your Jabs!

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:38 am

It doesn't really matter if it's the Taiji, Bagua, Xingyi, Baji etc. way (Mine's a combination of Xinyiliuhe and Taiji). It works. Very well. Stops them in their tracks and keeps them afraid of getting too close.

While you're at it, try to add some Shuaijin (or Bianjin - bian = whip) to your Baiquan (like "loose hooks"), haymaker etc. a la Tongbiquan, Tanglangquan etc. These are devastatingly effective. When gloveless or with MMA gloves you can replace jabs with "whips", which are faster than fists.

I'm spending my last half year or so in China training with boxers and a bit of Sanda people. They do their thing and I do mine. The coach really respects me and is giving me great tips on how to use what I have learned more effectively. He has a lot of fighting and teaching experience and was an army instructor for years. I see him laughing all the time when I put my traditional stuff to good use and my opponents are looking dazed (literally) and confused. He told me to never listen to what any one else says about these traditional fighting techniques. They are working just fine! ;D

When the weather gets warmer (and OH GOD is it cold here up in the Dongbei) I'll really be put to the test as better opponents emerge from hibernation.. 8-)
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Re: Put Fajin into your Jabs!

Postby 100kilos on Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:38 pm

Glad to hear you're mixing it up with some boxers. About putting fajin into a jab or like you meantioned whipping instead of closed fists; I feel that a good jab should have that whip motion in it. It is more often referred to as a snap. So your jabs should be relaxed and snapping. You could even add a small step and make into a jolt sort of like something out of Xing Yi. More you mix it up with boxers more you will see similarities. All paths lead to the same mountain so to speak. Good luck with your training.
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Re: Put Fajin into your Jabs!

Postby Strange on Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:35 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:I see him laughing all the time when I put my traditional stuff to good use and my opponents are looking dazed (literally) and confused. He told me to never listen to what any one else says about these traditional fighting techniques. They are working just fine! ;D


surprise, surprise! well what do you know? ;D
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Re: Put Fajin into your Jabs!

Postby johnwang on Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:49 pm

Whether you can land 50 lb, 75 lb, or 100 lb force on your opponent's face may not make that much difference. IMO, how to set up your jab is much more important and require training. In CMA, a "jab" is always set up by a low kick. In all the CMA training, I still have not found any skill that's more important than this combo - groin kick, face punch.

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Re: Put Fajin into your Jabs!

Postby Steve James on Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:14 pm

Well, in boxing, the jab is a weapon on its own, but it is also the set up tool because it's the weapon closest to the target. A kick is a longer weapon, so it's closer. It's just not used in western boxing. In the old days of professional karate leagues, kicks were the set ups. As a tool, a jab is merely a lead. A front kick lead is just as good.
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Re: Put Fajin into your Jabs!

Postby johnwang on Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:00 pm

The issue is if you use jab to set up, you will have nothing to cover your forward footwork. Your opponent can

- kick your belly,
- stomp on your knee, or
- sweep your leg.

If you use kick to set up your jab, not only you can use it to close the distance, your kick (or sweep) will also put your opponent in defense mode which is much safer for your "entry".
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Re: Put Fajin into your Jabs!

Postby Steve James on Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:06 pm

Now, we're not talking boxing anymore, though.
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Re: Put Fajin into your Jabs!

Postby johnwang on Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:31 pm

Steve James wrote:Now, we're not talking boxing anymore, though.

MaartenSFS also trains Sanda.

MaartenSFS wrote:it cold here up in the Dongbei ...

Believe it or not, in Dongbei, 1/2 of the "black dirt land" used to belong to my grandfather. Those land had to paid "double tax" compare to the regular land. My grandfather had 275 farmers leased his land back then. One day I asked my father, "How much land did we have?" My father said, "If you walk 3 days and 3 night, you are still on our land." Now the communist took it all away.

Image

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Re: Put Fajin into your Jabs!

Postby Steve James on Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:03 pm

Oh, I wasn't giving Maarten any recommendations. Using the lead leg is rational. My point was that a jab in boxing has a specific function because there's no kicking in that sport.
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Re: Put Fajin into your Jabs!

Postby dspyrido on Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:23 pm

johnwang wrote:In CMA, a "jab" is always set up by a low kick. In all the CMA training, I still have not found any skill that's more important than this combo - groin kick, face punch.


I think the level up is adding footwork and dodging to kick-punch as it takes into consideration what the opponent is doing. It exists in cma but does not seem emphasised as much.

Any reason why?
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Re: Put Fajin into your Jabs!

Postby Strange on Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:43 pm

johnwang wrote:One day I asked my father, "How much land did we have?" My father said, "If you walk 3 days and 3 night, you are still on our land." Now the communist took it all away.


the taiwanese slur for communists is bandit
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Re: Put Fajin into your Jabs!

Postby johnwang on Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:45 pm

Strange wrote:the taiwanese slur for communists is bandit

Not just "bandit" but "evil bandit".

I still remember when I took the "go aboard exam", the teacher suggested in that exam, I had to use words such as "under the flood of the evil bandits ...", otherwise the Taiwan government won't let me pass that exam.

dspyrido wrote:I think the level up is adding footwork and dodging to kick-punch as it takes into consideration what the opponent is doing. It exists in cma but does not seem emphasised as much.

Any reason why?

That's a good question. Why people only care about "power generation" and don't care much about "skill development"? It's like people only care about "nuclear device", but don't care much about "deliver system".
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Re: Put Fajin into your Jabs!

Postby Wuming on Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:03 pm

johnwang wrote:That's a good question. Why people only care about "power generation" and don't care much about "skill development"? It's like people only care about "nuclear device", but don't care much about "deliver system".


Because most people don't have a delivery system.
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Re: Put Fajin into your Jabs!

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:09 pm

100kilos wrote:Glad to hear you're mixing it up with some boxers. About putting fajin into a jab or like you meantioned whipping instead of closed fists; I feel that a good jab should have that whip motion in it. It is more often referred to as a snap. So your jabs should be relaxed and snapping. You could even add a small step and make into a jolt sort of like something out of Xing Yi. More you mix it up with boxers more you will see similarities. All paths lead to the same mountain so to speak. Good luck with your training.

It has its merits! Boxing is a fantastic yard stick to measure my striking ability against.

I do take a small step with my "jabs", but the Jin for my fist jabs and open-hand jabs isn't quite the same. My fist jabs are so powerful because by issuing force into the ground and transferring it to my hips/waist when it comes back up it creates a shock wave through my body, which I direct to to arms and then to my lead hand and rear elbow (to a somewhat lesser extent). Because my fist is pointing at them the whole time and shoots straight out from my body (think of a line from my fist, across my shoulders and to my rear elbow), it has my entire body weight behind it, sort of like when soldiers used to put the end of their pikes into the ground at an angle when attacking cavalry, but with a step.

Reading your post again perhaps one could say that there is a bit of "snap" in there, but I'd liken it to a snake strike, whereas my open-hand strikes are more like a whip strike. :)
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Re: Put Fajin into your Jabs!

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:39 pm

johnwang wrote:Whether you can land 50 lb, 75 lb, or 100 lb force on your opponent's face may not make that much difference. IMO, how to set up your jab is much more important and require training. In CMA, a "jab" is always set up by a low kick. In all the CMA training, I still have not found any skill that's more important than this combo - groin kick, face punch.



In my system all kicking techniques are done together with hand techniques. I totally agree with you about that. But my "jab" not only a set up (although it can be), but a powerful attack in its own right, which is making my opponents very cautious.. ;D
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