BJJ/Groundfighting a necessary supplement?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: BJJ/Groundfighting a necessary supplement?

Postby willie on Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:47 pm

shawnsegler wrote:
O.K. your post is quite acceptable.


Oh, Please STFU.


Damn it, do i need to quote this one again and again? I SAID WHERE IS XXXXX and why hasn't he addressed the real people who are abusive?
I actually had to look up what STFU meant, did you know that it means "Shut the Fuck up?"
I mean you couldn't have known that, right!
Because you certainly wouldn't say that in my presence...Did you know that you should never say things that you cant enforce?

so yeah his post was acceptable. meaning o.k. because i dis-agree with him when he said that leg subs aren't effective in a fight.
I mean look at that last event. i didn't even try to injure his knee, imagine what would happen if i did?
but you didn't deserve an explanation, did you?
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Re: BJJ/Groundfighting a necessary supplement?

Postby Finny on Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:13 pm

Willie, you still don't seem to understand what's happening here.

This thread is not you having a conversation with someone. This is a PUBLIC discussion, for everyone. It is not for you to deem anything acceptable or unacceptable. That you would say that is indicative of the posting style you use.. that has seen you forcibly removed from the conversation at least a couple of times in less than a year here.

Shawn has been here forever, and has never once (AFAIK) been removed. There is a reason for the difference.

It was not an insult, threat OR personal attack - it was someone asking you to shut the fuck up with that bullshit. And yeah, I'd happily say that to your face. It's not about "enforcing" anything, it's about pointing out stupidity or ridiculous behaviour.

Oh, and as we've discussed before.. ninjutsu is the exact opposite of what the OP might want if he "just wants traditional"

Good to have you back though mate - always entertaining to have you around :)
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Re: BJJ/Groundfighting a necessary supplement?

Postby grzegorz on Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:39 am

willie wrote:
Dmitri wrote:
willie wrote:he got caught in my heal hook and he didn't even know to tap so his knee popped out

...and you? Didn't even know to release it in time, or didn't even care to? :o -argh- -loco- :-X


I knew that you and other's would have childish remarks like this.
perhap's you should get out to a real MMA school and see how it really is, shit happens.


In sambo the rule with heel hooks was catch and release and this was the Russian way because as Palhares showed the MMA world the problem with heel hooks is if you wait for the pain it is much too late.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7b-_D66iMI
Last edited by grzegorz on Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:48 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: BJJ/Groundfighting a necessary supplement?

Postby Steve James on Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:58 am

Ever heard the story about Hulk Hogan's first day training pro-wrestling? After working him out to exhaustion, one of the vets put him in a heel hook and broke his leg. He came back a few months later, and they knew he was serious.
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Re: BJJ/Groundfighting a necessary supplement?

Postby willie on Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:33 am

Finny wrote:Willie, you still don't seem to understand what's happening here.

This thread is not you having a conversation with someone. This is a PUBLIC discussion, for everyone. It is not for you to deem anything acceptable or unacceptable. That you would say that is indicative of the posting style you use.. that has seen you forcibly removed from the conversation at least a couple of times in less than a year here.

Shawn has been here forever, and has never once (AFAIK) been removed. There is a reason for the difference.

It was not an insult, threat OR personal attack - it was someone asking you to shut the fuck up with that bullshit. And yeah, I'd happily say that to your face. It's not about "enforcing" anything, it's about pointing out stupidity or ridiculous behaviour.

Oh, and as we've discussed before.. ninjutsu is the exact opposite of what the OP might want if he "just wants traditional"

Good to have you back though mate - always entertaining to have you around :)


Finny. your post to me is unacceptable.
There is nothing stupid about my posting style. what is stupid is your post.
Can you imagine how stupid you sound threatening to tell my to STFU from a 1000 miles away?
I personally don't say things like that, but keep on with your empty rant.
Sorry Finny I'm not going along with your bullshit or anyone else's. it time for people like you
and other to humble yourselves and stop chasing away the real players.
good day...

P.S. oh i forgot that's right you attacked me the last time when i mentioned Ninjutsu...
I got in trouble for your abusiveness remember?
You had this whole speech on how Ninjutsu was b.S. and don't exist and all that non-sense, yes i remember it now...
here's the problem poor, poor finny. there are million of people around the world practicng Ninjutsu every day and they
have a ground game similar to BJJ.
So please don't be upset if I take the word of Hatsumi that ninjutsu does in fact exist over your self imposed expertise.
Last edited by willie on Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BJJ/Groundfighting a necessary supplement?

Postby xxxxx on Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:21 am

willie wrote:
shawnsegler wrote:
O.K. your post is quite acceptable.


Oh, Please STFU.


Damn it, do i need to quote this one again and again? I SAID WHERE IS XXXXX and why hasn't he addressed the real people who are abusive?


As you wish.
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Re: BJJ/Groundfighting a necessary supplement?

Postby shawnsegler on Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:36 pm

Damn it, do i need to quote this one again and again? I SAID WHERE IS XXXXX and why hasn't he addressed the real people who are abusive?
I actually had to look up what STFU meant, did you know that it means "Shut the Fuck up?"
I mean you couldn't have known that, right!
Because you certainly wouldn't say that in my presence


Poor Soul....you were just too high strung...

Not a daisy at all...

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Re: BJJ/Groundfighting a necessary supplement?

Postby BruceP on Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:55 pm

willie wrote:That's what we are suppose to do. Train to a point of failure, determine how and why we failed and fix it.


In training for failure, failure should never be the destination. It should the embarkation point. I really gotta get busy finishing my book...
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Re: BJJ/Groundfighting a necessary supplement?

Postby MaartenSFS on Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:50 pm

And all was well again in the lands.. :)
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BJJ/Groundfighting a necessary supplement?

Postby BruceP on Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:22 pm

Why is all well? Because a dissenter got shut down? Kinda sad that willie got booted for being willie
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Re: BJJ/Groundfighting a necessary supplement?

Postby everything on Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:53 pm

if you're the new guy being too unruly in the bar bothering all the longtime regular patrons and saying they're all the actual assholes making the bar crappy (well then why did you start frequenting the bar?), it kind of ruins the atmosphere for everyone.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: BJJ/Groundfighting a necessary supplement?

Postby dspyrido on Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:42 pm

grzegorz wrote:In sambo the rule with heel hooks was catch and release and this was the Russian way because as Palhares showed the MMA world the problem with heel hooks is if you wait for the pain it is much too late.


He is a prick who continued to hold and tighten the pressure even after the tap. He even had to be pulled off by the referee on multiple occasions. A snap can occur in many cases due to speed and pressure but this guy would not let go even after a referee would be trying to seperate him. It's the equivalent of kicking a person when they have been knocked out.

The interesting part now is how Palhares lost his last two fights by being knocked out when positioning or going for the take down. Once by uppercut and other by good old downward palm strikes (IMO they looked like a hammer fist but either way the worked).

So the morale to the ground fighting question - if someone is not a groundfighter (all those deadly purist taich'ers of the world pretty much fit this) I have got to say it is more important to know how to stop the takedown and apply infighting. Wrestling (shuajiow) + chinna + close striking practice has got to be the more sensible augmentation.

Once that is understood & there is an appetite to learn the ground then a simpler strategy is to learn break someones guard down vs. pulling people into the guard. No one seems to have a style called "ground and pound fu" other than it is something people do in mma and the schoolyard. But done right from a solid base + pins (aka as trapping) + strikes and it has a habit of removing many guard based submission moves. For this stuff & as zrm mentioned - Erik Paulson's information is a great place to start.
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Re: BJJ/Groundfighting a necessary supplement?

Postby Finny on Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:50 pm

willie wrote:Finny. your post to me is unacceptable.
There is nothing stupid about my posting style. what is stupid is your post.
Can you imagine how stupid you sound threatening to tell my to STFU from a 1000 miles away?


Thank you for amending your post to say unacceptable - to you.
I didn't call your posting style stupid, I said it had led to your being removed a couple of times in far less than a year.
And again, it's not a threat, it's a request. You are the one who constantly resorts to puffing your chest up and insisting no one would ever so much as fart in your direction in person.

willie wrote:I personally don't say things like that, but keep on with your empty rant.
Sorry Finny I'm not going along with your bullshit or anyone else's. it time for people like you
and other to humble yourselves and stop chasing away the real players.
good day...


Things like that are exactly what you say.

willie wrote:P.S. oh i forgot that's right you attacked me the last time when i mentioned Ninjutsu...
I got in trouble for your abusiveness remember?
You had this whole speech on how Ninjutsu was b.S. and don't exist and all that non-sense, yes i remember it now...
here's the problem poor, poor finny. there are million of people around the world practicng Ninjutsu every day and they
have a ground game similar to BJJ.
So please don't be upset if I take the word of Hatsumi that ninjutsu does in fact exist over your self imposed expertise.


I didn't attack you - that's why it was you removed, not me.
Yes, 'ninjutsu' per Hatsumi and his folks is a modern creation which has nothing to with what any sort of historical 'ninja' might have done.
I don't buy into authority by popularity. If that argument held, top billboard artists would be actual musicians, not what we have.. feel free to choose another example from the bucket, they're plentiful.
I don't think I'm any sort of expert on much of anything, but I know enough about Japanese history and martial arts to speak with confidence. You're welcome to disagree, as with many things Japanese it's not an entirely black and white issue.
Last edited by Finny on Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: BJJ/Groundfighting a necessary supplement?

Postby grzegorz on Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:49 pm

BruceP wrote:
willie wrote:That's what we are suppose to do. Train to a point of failure, determine how and why we failed and fix it.


In training for failure, failure should never be the destination. It should the embarkation point. I really gotta get busy finishing my book...


I agree. The older I get the more I can get out of a half an hour of training than decades ago.

I used to time as a measurement of progress but now I know better.
Last edited by grzegorz on Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BJJ/Groundfighting a necessary supplement?

Postby grzegorz on Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:59 pm

BruceP wrote:Why is all well? Because a dissenter got shut down? Kinda sad that willie got booted for being willie


He kept calling 911 and the police decided he was one disturbing the peace.

What are you going to do?

I found the heel hook story in poor taste and then he was more reasonable about it but then revealed that it was against someone with no submission or ground experience which is even worse to me. Yes, I have been there too once but I have never purposely injured anyone. I am not sure if he did but he does seem kind of proud of injuring a training partner which is concerning.

I wish him well. I hope as he ages he mellows out. Some never do but you cannot stop time.
Last edited by grzegorz on Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am, edited 5 times in total.
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