BJJ/Groundfighting a necessary supplement?

[Dmitri]

If he never had any groundwork training, he would be like a fish out of the water. If the BJJ guy has a bit of skill, say a at least couple years of training, the Tai chi guy would be submitted with relative ease. Fwiw

[Steve James]

It's a question of whether the bjj guy could get the tcc guy into his territory. That would depend on the respective skills, though. I know. The qualification was that the tcc guy be a master. However, I think that title is an honorific more than an indication of skill. So, let's say I consider a bout between Royce Gracie and ___________ tcc "master" who'd never done any groundwork. I'd say that if the tcc can keep it stand up (which would include wrestling), he'd have a chance. If he ended up on the ground, I would bet on Royce.

[GrahamB]

This thread is drifting perilously close to 'Royce would choke him out'

[johnwang]

This thread is drifting perilously close to 'Royce would choke him out'

It all comes back to this simple question, "Which skill will a Taiji master use to kill Royce?"

[Yeung]

https://www.quora.com/Are-hitting-press ... wed-in-MMA

Yes and no depending on where the pressure point is located.

According to the UFC rules (which is generally accepted to be similar to other MMA rule sets) - Unified Rules and Other MMA Regulations, you are forbidden from:
- Striking the neck
- Small joint manipulation
- Eye gouging
- Grabbing the clavicle
- Groin attacks
- Striking the clavicle
etc.

From a self-defense perspective, these are very good places to attack.

Provided the pressure point is not classified under the attack, then it is fair game.

Keep in mind though that MMA fighters tend to be muscular which can lessen the impact on a pressure point.

[middleway]

https://www.quora.com/Are-hitting-press ... wed-in-MMA

Yes and no depending on where the pressure point is located.

According to the UFC rules (which is generally accepted to be similar to other MMA rule sets) - Unified Rules and Other MMA Regulations, you are forbidden from:
- Striking the neck
- Small joint manipulation
- Eye gouging
- Grabbing the clavicle
- Groin attacks
- Striking the clavicle
etc.

From a self-defense perspective, these are very good places to attack.

Provided the pressure point is not classified under the attack, then it is fair game.

Keep in mind though that MMA fighters tend to be muscular which can lessen the impact on a pressure point.

What makes people think that an MMA fighter wouldnt use these things in a street fight? It has always baffled me. I personally know an pro MMA fighter who, when confronted by a dude in a bar wanting trouble kicked him hard as hell in the nuts. The difference is he was also absolutely prepared for the punchy grappley game that is much more the norm (having personally witnessed hundreds of street fights) The same cant be said for those who rely on the above with out pressure testing the basic skills (striking, grappling, ground) as well.

This thread is headed BTDT .... and fast.

[GrahamB]

rec.martial-arts Tai Chi vs Wrestling, 2001.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... %5B1-25%5D

This is beyond BTDT!

[DeusTrismegistus]

It really is a question of training. If you train to fight, and you include ground fighting and escaping from the ground, then a tai chi master should have a very good chance of getting back to the feet against an athlete who is not a martial artist, if that master is also fit and fairly well conditioned. If it is a typical tai chi master who only does forms and pushes with students and gets mad when someone goes off script, he would be wrecked.

[Dmitri]

It's a question of whether the bjj guy could get the tcc guy into his territory.

But his last, clarified and adjusted, question stated clearly "when taken to the ground", so that's what I answered...

This thread is drifting perilously close to 'Royce would choke him out'

It all comes back to this simple question, "Which skill will a Taiji master use to kill Royce?"

Push, of course! He would shove him against the cage so hard that his internal organs will all turn into jello.

[Yeung]

I'm sure this topic has been discussed before, maybe you can point me in the right direction, to save you time.
My question is please if a Tai Chi master is in a noisy environment, and is blindsided by a professional football player who tries to tackle the master into the ground, and the attacker happens to be a high level ground fighter/BJJ, would the tai chi master be sufficiently able to subdue the attacker?

The point of the question is to see whether BJJ is a necessary supplement to Tai Chi Training, with regards to an unarmed self defense scenario where something like the above were to occur

This is a problem in cross training, and it is not the same as with boxing and wrestling. If you know how not to use brute force in Taijiquan then you can apply it to ground techniques. If you use brute to train your so called Taijiquan, then it is just a question of learn some BJJ ground techniques. There are basic differences in generating power between using brute force and not using brute force.

[willie]

You guys are sooo funny, not to smart though.

[Dmitri]

You guys are sooo funny, not to smart though.

Not sure what your point is. Are you saying Sakuraba is a tai chi master?

[willie]

Not sure what your point is. Are you saying Sakuraba is a tai chi master?

nope, think it threw man, think it threw.

[everything]

rock paper scissors. lizard spock.

[everything]

in all seriousness in this insanely hypothetical (same human different skills), given in real life you have limited time, judo is a great mix of both approaches. anti-takedown, throws/takedowns, groundwork. it is subjectively more fun than passive-aggressive ph or overly sweaty groundwork. your life is short; you should have more fun. for bad assumptions on unarmed (unless this is like middle school gym) emergency scenarios, google weapons at hand, etc., grab your phone, scissors, broom, chair, pen, book, mug, computer, computer mouse, etc., etc., etc. and use those.