the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

I'm sure this topic has been discussed before, maybe you can point me in the right direction, to save you time.
My question is please if a Tai Chi master is in a noisy environment, and is blindsided by a professional football player who tries to tackle the master into the ground, and the attacker happens to be a high level ground fighter/BJJ, would the tai chi master be sufficiently able to subdue the attacker?

The point of the question is to see whether BJJ is a necessary supplement to Tai Chi Training, with regards to an unarmed self defense scenario where something like the above were to occur

shoebox55 wrote:I'm sure this topic has been discussed before, maybe you can point me in the right direction, to save you time.
My question is please if a Tai Chi master is in a noisy environment, and is blindsided by a professional football player who tries to tackle the master into the ground, and the attacker happens to be a high level ground fighter/BJJ, would the tai chi master be sufficiently able to subdue the attacker?

The point of the question is to see whether BJJ is a necessary supplement to Tai Chi Training, with regards to an unarmed self defense scenario where something like the above were to occur

This has to be a trolling attempt. I'd give it 2/10.

I'd give it 2/10.

You are generous.

.. ..

Any professional sports athlete would utterly destroy 99% of the people who practice martial arts.
Particularly if they tackle him from the blindside.
If you train pro sports as a career 8 hours a day your level of conditioning and toughness is light years beyond anything but the tiniest fraction of the highest trained martial arts people.
Pro sports take a level of commitment, dedication, perseverance and sacrifice that the average person has no desire/ability to achieve.
Martial arts can be done by anyone, anywhere at any level of effort they desire.

Just a sincere question, I don't have any agenda. I'm interested in Tai Chi as my primary Martial art but wondered about if it needed supplementing...I gave an extreme hypothetical example just to understand any limitations, if any, with the training of a Tai Chi master. I suppose all things equal, size, level of strength, cardio, etc.

shoebox55 wrote:Just a sincere question, I don't have any agenda. I'm interested in Tai Chi as my primary Martial art but wondered about if it needed supplementing...I gave an extreme hypothetical example just to understand any limitations, if any, with the training of a Tai Chi master. I suppose all things equal, size, level of strength, cardio, etc.

It's not necessary, But having some will definitely make you much more rounded.
Also most Bjj/MMA guys despise tai chi so it wouldn't be a bad idea to have some under the hood just in case your doing tai chi in the park
and run into an asshole who can't mind himself.

it's a good idea. also, it will be fun. if your time is limited, just study judo. you'll get throws, takedown defense, a little bit of groundwork.

btw, getting back to the would-be trolling topics, the extreme case is like saying what if Cristiano Ronaldo blindsided you and soccer kicked you in the head? No amount of training in whatever is going to help you. Maybe you'd better cross train the ninja-sees-everything awareness skills. I can send you the first few installments for 99 easy payments of $49.99.

I have done both for a long time. Lots of good advice here.

Jesse is right that an athlete will always have the edge and Willie is right that you can't really go wrong learning some. I recommend it but keep in mind that most BJJ guys train many times a week and if they are young and talented some will train everyday. Therefore you may find yourself doing all BJJ and you will have to if you want to actually progress.

Personally I would highly recommend judo, especially some place that does a lot of newaza. No, it is not the same as BJJ but you will get a taste of ground or mat work and learn how to throw people or avoid being thrown. Taking down a good judoka is very hard so it is a win-win situation and if you want to continue then bjj will always be around.

To be honest I actually prefer judo over bjj, although harder on the body, we get less testosterone filled boneheads in judo. Whereas in BJJ you will see more dudes who think every roll is the UFC, which is cool if you are down but for me it got old because the risk of injury isn't worth it to me since I need to be in good condition to do my job since it is injury prone already.

These days absolutely. Enough people train grappling now that you need to know a little and from what I've seen most enjoy it.

Keep in mind all of the greats (Bruce Lee, Wan Lai Sheng, etc.) cross trained extensively to eliminate their weaknesses. The MMA thing really isn't new. It just has better marketing and a cool name now.

shoebox55 wrote:with regards to an unarmed self defense scenario

Why unarmed? Most "bad guys" would likely be armed -- are you also looking to supplement your training with knife or handgun defense training? Improvised weapons? Just curious.

How about a group of people? Did you perhaps mean "unarmed one-on-one self defense scenario"?

What are your training goals -- or do you have any?

HI Dmitri, yes unarmed one-on-one self defense scenario.

At the moment I'm not training but I want to get back into it. My primary focus right now is unarmed self defense, but I would like to incorporate weapons/hand gun training at some point.

What are your training goals -- or do you have any?

I agree with Dmitri here. There first thing you must decide is your need. That totally depends on you, though. I don't think there's an inherent need for a tcc practitioner to study ground work IF it's not required for the way you practice tcc. There's nothing wrong with doing bjj and tcc simultaneously. There's also nothing wrong with trying out one's tcc against other martial styles. In fact, it's recommended IF that's what you need to do. As Greg points out, it takes a good deal of practice to become proficient: one way or the other. Even training to be "ground-proof" takes practice.

Some people will argue that including anything into your tcc training is unnecessary and/or even counter-productive. Well, maybe, but if you're training because you need to defend yourself or those close to you, then it doesn't really matter what the purists think. In which case, however, the question would be whether you need tcc.

Bye bye thread... To the pit you go.

shoebox55 wrote:I'm sure this topic has been discussed before, maybe you can point me in the right direction, to save you time.
My question is please if a Tai Chi master is in a noisy environment, and is blindsided by a professional football player who tries to tackle the master into the ground, and the attacker happens to be a high level ground fighter/BJJ, would the tai chi master be sufficiently able to subdue the attacker?

This scenario reminds me of the book I read with my daughter last night:

"When tweetle beetles fight,
it's called a tweetle beetle battle.

And when they battle in a puddle,
it's a tweetle beetle puddle battle.

AND when tweetle beetles battle with paddles in a puddle,
they call it a tweetle beetle puddle paddle battle.

AND...

When beetles battle beetles in a puddle paddle battle
and the beetle battle puddle is a puddle in a bottle...
...they call this a tweetle beetle bottle puddle paddle battle muddle.

AND...

When beetles fight these battles in a bottle with their paddles
and the bottle's on a poodle and the poodle's eating noodles...
...they call this a muddle puddle tweetle poodle beetle noodle
bottle paddle battle.
AND..."

Thanks Dr. Suess!

Rather than providing this scenario, I should've just asked how the Tai Chi master would manage if taken to the ground. That is all. If there is any limitation, and if so, would BJJ be a necessary supplement for such instances, when taken to the ground.

The attacker and the tai chi master are both the same person in every respect except different skillsets.