the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

I had this same long conversation with Tim once. Basically he steered me to judo, which will have what you're looking for, shoebox: Takedowns/anti-takedowns, groundwork. Compatible with and will shed light on, your taijiquan, and vice versa.

After you do that, eventually you will probably realize that "self defense" has none of the assumptions you make in your line of questioning. cloudz' comment about his daughter gets more to the point. You may be 90 and then realize that "self defense" will not really be about your anti-submissions or anti-takedown skill, even if you are ex-SEAL Team 6, pro MMA, multiple blackbelt, Chuck Norris, etc... But you should still go through this path. It is fun, intellectually stimulating, good exercise, good socializing, self-confidence-building, makes you an educated sport MA fan, etc., etc.

everything wrote:I had this same long conversation with Tim once. Basically he steered me to judo, which will have what you're looking for, shoebox: Takedowns/anti-takedowns, groundwork. Compatible with and will shed light on, your taijiquan, and vice versa.

Wouldn't Tai Chi be relied on for takedowns/antitakedowns? If so, wouldn't I only be interested if supplementing my main art with ground focused training?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlhH0PAsaZI

Theoretically of course.

Practically, probably not and not to a good level (national or Olympic level grapplers may be at your run of mill judo dojo vs limp noodle hippie nerds). Judo people have good anti takedown against other grapplers as a broad generalization but not as good submissions as BJJ specialists. Don't forget wrestlers do all this too. IF your group did all that AND TJQ it would be a good group. There is a continuum.

Plus taijiquan has no groundwork.

That said, it's an awesome art, similar but different in many ways.

I believe you will find what you want.

everything wrote:I had this same long conversation with Tim once. Basically he steered me to judo, which will have what you're looking for, shoebox: Takedowns/anti-takedowns, groundwork. Compatible with and will shed light on, your taijiquan, and vice versa.

Can you explain why he steered you to judo? It's interesting because I don't think he has trained in judo

everything wrote:Theoretically of course.

Practically, probably not and not to a good level (national or Olympic level grapplers may be at your run of mill judo dojo vs limp noodle hippie nerds).

The higher level Tai chi guys you don't think are at par in terms of anti takedown/takedown of Judo players?

This is limp noodle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B16EDbq8PqY

For your first question, I'd speculate as an expert in IMA and champion in BJJ, he knew enough about judo to recommend it to someone who wanted throws and counters from a light free push hands: very much like randori.

For your second question, if your school has various style grapplers participating in a light randori, you are in great shape. Then those people could help you with your ground questions.

Re: judo, I've always thought it was the ideal sport for children, young beginners and people who wanted general, overall skills --such as learning to fall, being comfortable with competition and being thrown, developing general fitness. Then again, wrestling is also great for developing stand up grappling experience. It's probably easier to find a judo school than to find a wrestling program nowadays.

Of course, judo has newaza (ground techniques) too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u41omoNO4U