The Dan Tian

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: The Dan Tian

Postby robert on Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:23 pm

bruised wrote:my reply in bolded text

bruised wrote:it seem through out history and many cultures, old dudes sitting in caves by themselves meditating all come to very similar ideas.


robert wrote:What cultures besides the Chinese place so much emphasis on the dantian? I thought the early writers were part of society, librarians and the like. As I understand it in the daoist tradition people are trained in various techniques and later in life may go off and become a hermit. How many people found these things on their own? The only places I see anything like IMA type movements are places that have had contact with and have been influenced by China. From what I've seen the body mechanics that are used in IMA need to be shown to you.


they may not call it dantian, but just off the top of my head: india, polynesia, peru, egypt, afrika and prob more. I think even pre hippocratic west had some concepts like dantian. most seem to refer to breath relation. not the same? you develop dantian, you will know that breath is a huge part of it. you can not master your matter without mastering the breath, i'll bet you a beer on that! call bullshit on me because i know it sounds ridiculous, but i stumbled upon my "dantian" by accident. 3 years breathwork and standing meditation experience helped get me to this point and its still just the tip of the iceberg. even meditation was something i stumbled onto by accident.

Please site references that show they are talking about the same thing. The dantian refers to more than breath.
Last edited by robert on Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Try not to let the words confuse you — they serve no other purpose than to guide you into the inner structures of Taiji. Chen Xin
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Re: The Dan Tian

Postby bruised on Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:24 pm

robert wrote:
bruised wrote:my reply in bolded text

bruised wrote:it seem through out history and many cultures, old dudes sitting in caves by themselves meditating all come to very similar ideas.


robert wrote:What cultures besides the Chinese place so much emphasis on the dantian? I thought the early writers were part of society, librarians and the like. As I understand it in the daoist tradition people are trained in various techniques and later in life may go off and become a hermit. How many people found these things on their own? The only places I see anything like IMA type movements are places that have had contact with and have been influenced by China. From what I've seen the body mechanics that are used in IMA need to be shown to you.


they may not call it dantian, but just off the top of my head: india, polynesia, peru, egypt, afrika and prob more. I think even pre hippocratic west had some concepts like dantian. most seem to refer to breath relation. not the same? you develop dantian, you will know that breath is a huge part of it. you can not master your matter without mastering the breath, i'll bet you a beer on that! call bullshit on me because i know it sounds ridiculous, but i stumbled upon my "dantian" by accident. 3 years breathwork and standing meditation experience helped get me to this point and its still just the tip of the iceberg. even meditation was something i stumbled onto by accident.

Please site references that show they are talking about the same thing. The dantian refers to more than breath.


nah, aint no one got time for that. you don't know the dao my friend. id rather be doing shit like this:

then my phone dies

phone phones dies at end again.

fuck me, flame suite on. have some respect and don't share this vid, don't make me be a corn ball and private this video. bear through the start.
Last edited by bruised on Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Dan Tian

Postby bruised on Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:27 pm

charles wrote:
bruised wrote: you develop dantian, you will know that breath is a huge part of it. you can not master your matter without mastering the breath, i'll bet you a beer on that! call bullshit on me because i know it sounds ridiculous, but i stumbled upon my "dantian" by accident. 3 years breathwork and standing meditation experience helped get me to this point and its still just the tip of the iceberg. even meditation was something i stumbled onto by accident.


And that is really why I started this thread, this conversation. There are commonly two different things that are being referred to when "people" discuss "the dan tian". One is related to the physical stuff of the abdomen; the other is related to energetic and/or spiritual development. In my opinion, they eventually become different facets of the same thing, but to start with, learning about them, they are, or can be, two separate studies.

I spent a decade doing regular standing meditation work that involved both regular and "reverse" abdominal breathing. That work did a variety of things, most notably developing the ability to "let loose" or "relax". For me, it did little to "develop the dan tian", per se, either the physical thing or the energetic thing. (I've had the occasional discussion with a few long time practitioners for whom it did, though not many.) By contrast, the sitting meditation I was taught, only one of a number of different sitting meditation practices, did not focus on breathing at all, but to breath naturally, gradually breathing more and more slowly, lightly and shallowly to eventually reach a point of almost no obvious breathing at all. After four years of THAT, stuff happened, stuff related to "energetics". I've discussed that with a variety of people who have gone through similar training and it is a common path with common sensations, one that is sufficiently well charted.

That stuff, is very different than what is typical of physical "dan tian development" as a result of, for example, prolonged silk reeling practice.

what are " IMA type movements?" why can they not be written down do you think? please link me, i would like to try.


They can be written down and have been. There are many practices for leading a student who puts in the work to understand these things for her or him self. These things are experiential: an effective teacher will guide the student to practices that can bring about those experiences. Understanding and skill are derived from those experiences. Different experiences, different understanding and skills.


i'm trying to translate my psychic dantian into a physical one, then learn kung fu. wtf is wrong with me?

also related to dantian: belly development from kung fu practice. ever see the scenes in kung fu movies where a master catches glimpse of a fighters belly, and can tell right away about their internal power? I love how the camera zooms into the belly, when i was young kid, it was a bit confusing, but now i understand.

I like to examine people abs. particularly the 12th rib ridge all around and make note of the balance and position of the diaphragm relative to this ridge.

I also like to note position and tensions in the floating ribs.

bruce lee studied the Dao and I can see in his moves that he reverse breaths and is very much aware of his breath. do you also see that he uses his full body to breath? the famous scene where he spreads his lats like a cobra opening up is rare direct glimpse of his internal awareness. i should do a fucking commentary on that scene alone. his full reverse exhale is incredible. I don't think he ever spoke about this and my guess is he took his breathing "secrets" to the grave.


id like to add that when I do my inner body exploration i look at something like this to journey:
Image

who else used the Nei Jing Tu to explore? where are your lost? most visited and familiar areas?
Last edited by bruised on Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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