the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

if you understand this concept and turn it 180
this also means that you may devise 1,001 methods to practice
but what ever you can think to do, first thing is that it must be
"healthy" and increase your strength*.

if not, the practice is essentially not correct.

*for my own self, i would add "deeper understanding of Dao"
but that's just me

CMA for health mean you don't care about strategy and you only care about power generation. In other words, you only care about yourself and you don't have opponent in mind. Through 李仲轩's book, he had never mentioned "how to enter" and "how to finish". He even admitted that he had no fighting experience himself.

he mentioned that he fought with ppl who were rude and thought he was a delivery boy.
he also said in is ignorance he wanted to fight Xue Dian, and was talked out of this particular folly
by his teacher, Tang WeiLu

also, we should note that Li was forbidden to teach and take on student by Shang;
that was Shang's explicit condition for taking Li as student.
As such, i do not think it is fair to view Li's book as a MA instruction book on xingyi.
If we think that, we would be complicit in making him break his promise to his teacher.

i for one did not learn anything.
Old man Li is talking an old man's tale with many fantastic and unrealistic ideas
one should not listen to a thing he says

He also mentioned "punch out slow, pull back fast" and "inhale when punch, exhale when pull back". If fighting was his goal, that was not the right way to train.

IMO, training purely for combat often comes at the expense of one's health, and vice versa. It's hard to have both. The best we can do is to find the right balance.

johnwang wrote:He also mentioned "punch out slow, pull back fast" and "inhale when punch, exhale when pull back". If fighting was his goal, that was not the right way to train.

he said 轻出重收
please read carefully

Strange wrote:

johnwang wrote:He also mentioned "punch out slow, pull back fast" and "inhale when punch, exhale when pull back". If fighting was his goal, that was not the right way to train.

he said 轻出重收
please read carefully

Whether you want to call it "light out, heavy in", or "slow out, fast in", this kind of training is for health and not for combat. Both "light out" and "slow out" cannot be used for killing.

well, JW, i understand that you are hard core
finishing moves and all that
which is fine

i am just sharing what a student of Shang, who has now passed, was taught
If you do not agree, it's fine too

I claim lineage teachings from Chen Tuan, some ppl believe he first drew the yin and yang
this philosophy of complementary and interacting opposite is deep in chinese culture
and as a chinese, i feel i need to understand this deeply as a unique cultural heritage and
also for its past explanatory and future predictive powers

speaking as a person with training injury in my body
which method, philosophy and understanding is conform more with nature of things
is too soon to tell for now.
in old age, one shall understand with the utmost intimate clarity as the feeling is with you day and night, 24/7

when the maximum is reached, a decline must happen

轻出重收 is situational. Core of xingyi is the whole body. Our eyes look to the front so some people tend to focus more to the front than the back then it is not balance and lean to the front. Let say in a Bang. 重收on the hand moving back and 轻出 on the hand moving forward will just help to balance the front and back. In a combat situation that we have no distance to throw a punch to the person at the front, 重收 on the hand moving back would work on giving a punch when the fist is very close or even on the other's body.

Chen Tuan is in Song Dynasty. By that time, the Confucius, Buddhism and Dao is one family. We can see "Five Words Song" talks about Buddhism and Dao. Wei Tuo Kung is named after Wei Tuo who is a god in Buddhism. Wu Ying Wah - son of Wu YiHui once said LHBF is Shaolin and also Wudang. Training on LHBF don't particularly focus on Dantian but it gets Dantian with proper training method. It is worthy to look into their similarities and differences.

Combat first or health first is a question on primary and secondary focus. Increasing one's bodily function, organ strength, musculoskeletal strength and alignment,
depth and smoothness of breathing are mutually inclusive in combat and health but who goes first. "for health mean you don't care about strategy and you only care about power generation. In other words, you only care about yourself and you don't have opponent in mind" is so true. Combat as primary and health as secondary is 拳 and Health as primary and combat as secondary is 操. And, martial art is martial art.

Strange wrote:injury ... old ...

IMO, it's better to send out positive energy to our surrounding. It's quite depression to associate old, sick/injury with CMA. Why can't we associate CMA training with healthy, young, happy, fun, dance, jump, flip, run, ...?

It was easier to associate things with young fun loving in the last century, JW.

A friend of mine had a new born brother when his father was 73 years old. That's positive energy.

johnwang wrote:A friend of mine had a new born brother when his father was 73 years old. That's positive energy.

ahhh you see, we are actually talking about the same thing all this time
this is the kinda "health" i'ma (pun intended) talkin' about

Chen Tuan 872 - 989 eraly northern Song

[youtube] https://youtu.be/20xdqiM7dHQ [/youtube]

About 3:48, It says it all~