A list of fundamentals exercices (be)for(e) IMA training ?

[lars]

Find someone who understands stance work. Learn the aligments and the opposing tensions that make for solid yet mobile and aligned stances. Start with horse, bow, and diao bu ("cat stance"). Learn how to stay relaxed in the thigh/hip articulation while maintianing a solid structure. Train to hold deep stances. Train moving from stance to stance with force "like grinding a mortor in a pestle", moving from your feet through your legs.

+1

A friend, who wants to begin practicing martial arts, asked me for tips on basic preparation, and I showed him 5 basic stances, some of their alignments and some easy movements associated with them. He was super happy and trained it for the hour I was with him. Next time I saw him 3 weeks later, I asked how it was going, and he had only done them once . The question is if one has the patience to do them properly and eat pain...
If not there are probably other, more "attention easy" exercises to help, but basic stances done properly is greaaaaaat! It gives a good foundation to understand everything that comes later, and the endurance to actually train and drill it.

[Greg J]

Hello,

Isn't working on strengh using maximal tension on the whole chain (as Tsatsouline suggests) taking the risk of being counterproductive for IMA though ?

Hey Praeludium,

Welcome to RSF!

There have probably been thousands of posts on the RSF (and more than one thread that ended up locked & in the pit) due to disagreements/ arguments that broke out over this very question. Personally, I tend to try and follow what science shows us is helpful. Most modern science has shown that resistance training is beneficial from a health perspective for a whole host of reasons I won't get into here. It also stands to reason that being able to lift and move heavy weight without injuring yourself will make you physically tougher and able to handle the weight of a resisting opponent which is a big part of what we train for in the martial arts. A lot of the criticism I've heard from IMA'ists about weight lifting seem (IMHO) to be based on esoteric teachings based on concepts that are essentially non-observable or measurable. Now, I'm not saying that therefore these concepts are not true and that we shouldn't pay attention to them if they are an important part of our martial arts tradition and they make sense. But we have seen a lot of the old beliefs around weight lifting and martial arts (that lifting weights will slow you down, or inhibit your endurance) completely disproved in recent years. What it comes down to (again, IMHO) is like so much else in life - why and how are you doing what you are doing?

As far as lifting for martial arts, I think KB's are probably one of the best ways to go. And they are pretty cost effective once you get past the initial cost of taking a few classes to learn the correct form and buy a KB. If you only see yourself doing basic two handed swings you can make your own device (called a T-Handle or T-Bar) for about $15. Master Ross has a T-Handle tutorial here:



And finally, there are also some workouts (like Murph) that are low tech and will really improve your physical and mental toughness.

Best,
Greg

[Overlord]

Picking on internal arts again, John?

Today, I just heard another Chen Taiji teacher passed away in Houston, Tx at the age of 63. Compare to my long fist teacher who is still going strong after his 90 birthday. "Taiji for health" will need further prove. IMO, you can't maintain your health if you don't sweat.

Raman Drekker 42
Kimbo Slice 42
Darren Shahlavi 43

Sometimes, shix just happen, it is hard to say what is good or what is bad~
But personally we can always learn from our predecessors and in hope doing the things right by health ~

Cheers,

[Strange]

Raman Drekker 42
Kimbo Slice 42
Darren Shahlavi 43

still very young and in their years of strength. pity.

[Overlord]

Very similar in what we do~
And I will add jogging and ZZ in the routine~
Usually I take at least 1.5 hour to fully warm up~

[Bao]

Hello,
Isn't working on strengh using maximal tension on the whole chain (as Tsatsouline suggests) taking the risk of being counterproductive for IMA though ?

A lot of the criticism I've heard from IMA'ists about weight lifting seem (IMHO) to be based on esoteric teachings based on concepts that are essentially non-observable or measurable.

IMO, there's nothing wrong to build mass. More mass means more power behind strikes, regardless if the methods are "internal" or "external". Over training though can make you stiff and tense which is counterproductive. But if you understand mechanics of IMA, I can't see strength and weight-training as counterproductive. Keeping softness and focusing on relaxation and building speed/acceleration is always more important than strength.

For strength, I would personally suggest to focus on building leg and core strength. Plank exercises should be good practice for IMA practitioners. Also single arm push-ups and single leg squat should be excellent whole body and core strength building exercises.

List of fundamental exercises wanted:
Stances/ individual postures
Relaxation exercises as "floppy arm exercises".
Drills
Fajin exercises
Balance exercises
Stretching
Scapula exercises
Gua opening exercises
Lower back softening exercises

I am not a fan of common warm-up exercises. There are some I use, things like stretching up towards the ceiling and try to bend the knees at the same time. This will stretch the middle region of the body. Otherwise I think that warming up the body should come from relaxation. If you can become warm easily just by standing and relaxing in Wuji posture, no special or extra warm up is required. When I had my own class, some of my students would warm up before starting the class. But I always insisted that they should learn to relax better and learn to become warm just by relaxing. I have only met one person that didn't accept this view of mine.

As far as stance work, deep form practice is just as good as stance practice for building root. Santi and Mabu can work faster, as a short cut. But practicing on relaxing and sinking while moving slow and deeply should build the same kind of rooting as stationary stance work.

Some people believe that a very strong core and good leg strength is required for IMA development. I have come to realize that recent masters of Tai Chi often had a background in more traditional Gongfu with all that hard, basic work. I don't think that a very tough training is necessary, but some people really seem to need that kind of practice. And for others, they would certainly developing in their style faster with it. Some people have no body coordination, no idea what their arms or legs are doing. Fundamental jibengong should at least give them a certain basic idea of body coordination as well as a certain body stability. Though I suspect that some people who have practiced not only basic jibengong, but also has a background in hard styles, might have it difficult to switch to a soft art based on relaxation and natural deep breath.

[bohdi]

+1 on building mass, but there is a point at which you can have too much. I have a brother that entered into MA as a professional bodybuilder, he has very very little flexibility beyond what's required to pose. Over the last year he's gained a bit to be sure, but the compression and stretching that you see, say, in xingyi's dragon is beyond him right now because of his mass. He also can't work closing actions with his chest very well because his pecs get in the way.

The takeaway here is that it's ok to have mass, imo neijia arts are terminal arts much like a degree at a college in that you're sort of expected to have a martial base before you start training them so you're expected to be strong already, you just want to make 100% sure that you stretch, stretch, stretch and that you work the internal stuff while you do the external too.

[Ron Panunto]

Your chosen art should have all the necessary basic exercises (Jibengong) included within the system to make you a successful practitioner, however, no problem adding cardio and strength exercises for general overall fitness.

[Wuyizidi]

This is my uncle's book: https://www.amazon.com/Combat-Technique ... 1583941452

It contains 2 chapters/115 pages (basic conditioning, basic movements, basic skills) for Xingyi, Bagua, Taiji, Tongbei, and Baji. I use a lot of these for warm-up.

[Ron Panunto]

Great book Wuyizidi. I learned Lu Shengli's combat form from Strider Clark, who I think learned it directly from him.