Worth it to Learn..

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Worth it to Learn..

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:10 pm

Over the years in China I've met and learned from many teachers, some of them masters of traditional arts, both short and long term. Some only for a few sessions. In most cases they imparted some sort of wisdom on me. The Youku video in the post about Che style Xingyiquan got me thinking about my three months of intensive study with a Xingyiquan master last year

He had great power to be sure. He looked like Yoda and was about the same height. His Gongli was quite incredible. He was over seventy years old, but still going strong. But he wasn't a fighter. Rather, over time, I came to find out that he was a really fucking stubbourn form fanatic. Still, he grinded Wuxingquan for God knows how many years and his master before him was a master.

So, I grinded mostly Piquan for three months for four hours per day, most days. I ended up quiting because he wouldn't let me work on my own things and there were very few people to spar with in that park, but it really solidified my footwork and increased the power of my other techniques. I also learned some cool Gongfa exercises.

In conclusion I think that it's very important to learn from a master that can fight and either regularly spars with you or has you spar with his other students regularly. You should study with this master long term and try to absorb as much of his hands-on knowledge as possible. After you can already fight, if you meet other masters that have skills you want it is definitely worth it to learn a thing or two from them. Gongfu should not be learned in a vacuum. It never was in the past either. Ancient fighters learned from whoever they could, even their opponents! We should do the same. Train hard! 8-)
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Re: Worth it to Learn..

Postby Ron Panunto on Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:19 pm

Some practitioners just want the health benefits from form practice and could care less about fighting - especially if you're 70 years of age (like me).
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Re: Worth it to Learn..

Postby johnwang on Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:43 pm

Ron Panunto wrote:Some practitioners just want the health benefits from form practice and could care less about fighting - especially if you're 70 years of age (like me).

I'll be 70 toward the end of this year. I'm still interested in fighting. When my training partner throws 20 punches and I can block each and every punch, I know my CMA training is on the right path.

IMO, to train CMA just for health is very boring.
Last edited by johnwang on Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: Worth it to Learn..

Postby MaartenSFS on Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:00 pm

I think practising for health is okay. Just don't call it martial arts. Unless you used to train hard but due to health reasons can't fight anymore or something. Without the fighting it all becomes fantasy. At some point we will be too old to fight all the time, after which I think it's great to keep training for health. But woe to anyone that mistakes me for a weak, old man! 8-)
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Re: Worth it to Learn..

Postby Steve James on Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:34 pm

Unless you're actually fighting, it's just exercise.
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Re: Worth it to Learn..

Postby RobP3 on Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:12 am

Can't fight if you are sick.Trick is to use the same moves for both, saves time.
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Re: Worth it to Learn..

Postby Ron Panunto on Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:52 am

johnwang wrote:
Ron Panunto wrote:Some practitioners just want the health benefits from form practice and could care less about fighting - especially if you're 70 years of age (like me).

I'll be 70 toward the end of this year. I'm still interested in fighting. When my training partner throws 20 punches and I can block each and every punch, I know my CMA training is on the right path.

IMO, to train CMA just for health is very boring.


John, are you a professional martial artist, or do you have a day job?
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Re: Worth it to Learn..

Postby everything on Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:59 am

just for health


health is the most important thing. You need your health every single day. You probably don't need to fight. But having fun and not being bored definitely helps your health!
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: Worth it to Learn..

Postby johnwang on Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:23 pm

Ron Panunto wrote:John, are you a professional martial artist, or do you have a day job?

I don't have job for the past 13 years. CMA was my full time job for the past 13 years. I can get all my health benefit from my running, bicycling, swimming, and weight training. I did Marathon, triathlon, iron men training for "health".
Last edited by johnwang on Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Worth it to Learn..

Postby johnwang on Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:33 pm

everything wrote:you probably don't need to fight.

Sparring/wrestling is different from fighting. If you spar/wrestle 15 rounds non-stop daily, you will be very "health". Even if you just play defense and let your opponent tries to knock you down, or take you down, it will be good for your heart and lung.
Last edited by johnwang on Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Worth it to Learn..

Postby everything on Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:36 pm

That sounds very, very fun, especially the way you guys train (looking at the videos).

I keep getting hurt playing soccer. It's actually more dangerous than sparring imo. Weird things happen from incidental contact you aren't expecting or agility moves the middle-aged body shouldn't do. "Health" is on my mind lately!
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: Worth it to Learn..

Postby johnwang on Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:41 pm

everything wrote:I keep getting hurt playing soccer.

If you just let your opponent tries to take you down and you only play defense (no punch involved). It will be very safe. You can still get a very good work out. You can even do this when you are 80 (may be change 15 rounds to 3 rounds).
Last edited by johnwang on Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Worth it to Learn..

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:46 pm

Isn't soccer the game that invented the no hit knockout
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Worth it to Learn..

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:49 pm

Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Worth it to Learn..

Postby gerard on Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:43 am

And some others have realised that you can go very deep and realise that the 'fighting propaganda' is just a gimmick. I don't need to defend myself against Mongol invaders or bandits in medieval China.

This is the ultimate battle:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)

And the toughest of all. :)

Another fight:

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/bud ... _5lbud.htm
Last edited by gerard on Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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