Teacher in China and living in China...

[Wuji]

I'm planning on going to China in the somewhat near future. I'm looking for a teacher in Xin Yi Liu He. I would like to make a list of teachers that I could maybe chose from, and some that I might be able to visit when traveling. I plan on teaching English, and I haven't really decided about what location yet. I did decide that I would rather not live in a huge city like Bejing. I mean, if most of the top teachers live in Shanghai or something, I can do it. I grew up in mostly small towns of 300-350 people. Some times less. So I'm use to that and I enjoy it. I've lived in big cities, so it's not a deal breaker, it's just a strong preference.

Ideally I would be learning from said teacher for a year or two, then coming back or traveling elsewhere. As far as language goes, I speak very little Mandarin. Pretty much everything that I speak is related to martial arts in some way, outside of a handful of words. So ideally someone that is/has taught people with a language barrier before. As far as a teacher, I'm looking for someone who teaches primarily XYLH. Nothing wrong with cross training, just most of the teachers I've found tend to mix stuff in and it becomes something else (imo, to each their own). Someone that teaches often, and affordably would also be great. I don't know how true it is, but I've read a lot of stories of foreigners going over and being charged the same average fee in America, in China (because they are a foreigner). Not sure if it's common or true, but would prefer something that I can afford on a English teachers salary, preferably daily.

My teacher told me that when he was in China, he would come home, go off to his teachers house, and train 3 to 4 hours a day, 5 days a week (with Yu Hua Long). He didn't go into what he paid, but he said it was really fair. Any guidance or anything as far as a teacher go, I would love any help at all. Now, outside of finding a teacher, I need some guidance from anyone who has done something similar to this. I have a young child (4 year old son). He isn't in school yet, outside of preschool. He starts school this year. I want to finish my degree before leaving, so he will be in school for 1, up to 2 years before leaving. How difficult will it be to bring him over there and put him into a school, and actually learn? I know they have international schools, but they're generally expensive if you don't work at one. I also know that children pick up on language much faster then adults do, so there is a chance he might pick the language up.

It's a while away, just want to figure some things out prior to going. Make sure everything is planned.

Thanks

[grzegorz]

Small towns are interesting because it will be easy to find work and you will be treated like a reality TV show star but the problem is you will be treated like a reality TV show star.

I lived in a few places in China and although the small towns have their charm I generally felt like I was in the middle of nowhere. To top it off unless you are fine with all Chinese food all the time you may find yourself traveling a few hours on weekends just to buy the groceries you want simply for a taste of something different.

I would try to find the best of both worlds. I would not go too rural but I would not rule out the big cities. If I were to go back I would move to Shanghai again but on the flip side after two years of Shanghai I pretty much had enough.

There are some nice big cities like Hangzhou. I also think going to some place like Xian which is more traditional but huge would have been interesting too.

In fact if I did do it all again. I would travel around with a back pack and see what worked for me. In fact that is how I ended up in Shanghai. Well that and a good job offer but it is really is the only way.

[nicklinjm]

Have been living in Shanghai for 5 years now, and studying kungfu (xingyi rather than XYLH), so can probably give some advice on this question.

First off, kungfu in China is very region specific. There are only a few places in China which have a relatively high concentration of XYLH teachers. Obviously as XYLH comes from Henan the highest concentration of teachers is still there, in cities like Zhoukou, Kaifeng and Luohe. Other centres of XYLH are in Shanghai (Lu Songgao + Yu Hualong's grandstudents) and Anhui (Bengbu, Fuyang, etc - from Song Guobin). From a kungfu POV I think you would be able to learn good XYLH in all of these places.

Second, you are still in the 'commercial teaching' mindset. However, the reality on the ground in China is that many teachers do not operate this way (XX dollars per class). Either they teach in the traditional way (no fees, baishi, give hongbao at CNY and other festivals) or the other tendency is for them to charge an annual fee or a one-off fee for discipleship. For example, one very well known XYLH teacher in Shanghai charges RMB 10,000 to baishi (become a disciple).

The most tricky problem for you is not going to be on the kungfu side - I think you will be able to find a good teacher in any of the places I mentioned above. The real problem is going to be your son's education.

Foreign children studying in Chinese schools is a real headache if you are not rich. It is v v difficult (if not impossible) for foreign children to study in a Chinese public school. The fees for international schools (certainly in Beijing / Shanghai Guangzhou) can be from USD 5,000 - 18,000 per year, see this link: http://www.china.org.cn/english/2002/Feb/26299.htm. Your best option would be to get your son into the 'international stream' of a local private school. The costs for this vary between USD 1,500 - 4,000 per year - Fangcaodi and Beijing World Youth Academy in the previous link are examples of this type.

The problem is this type of school only exists in the 1st tier (BJ / SH / GZ), and maybe some of the 2nd tier cities (Hefei / Nanjing / Hangzhou). So I think IF you want your son to be educated in English at a legit school, you will have to confine your choices to these cities.

Just my .02,

[grzegorz]

Oops! I completely missed that part about the kid.

Yeah, it is your decision but I would not put my kids through the Chinese education system. I sacrificed decades to study CMA but as soon as the kids came around and got to be about that age I realized it time to focus on providing for them and I put all my energy into my work once I figured out that teaching CMA wasn't going to pay the bills out here in expensive California.

To be honest I think you and your kid would be better off staying where you live and training with your teacher or simply find another if for whatever reason things aren't working out.

I think it is unfair to uproot a kid like that unless you were given an expat package (where your company cares for all your needs) or you were given a job offer that you could not find at home.

There are western families in China in but I don't believe there are people who moved there just to train. Of course it is your decision but seeing as finding a good teacher can take years I wouldn't put my kids through that.

I remember a man becoming a disciple in Beijing. In time he realized his teacher was holding back on him so he quit CMA and just does MMA. Unfortunately that is relatively common. As Nick mentions being a student in China is a lot more involved than just paying and learning. Unfortunately though sometimes it comes down to paying and not really learning...

[MaartenSFS]

For your son's sake, DON'T DO IT. China is not a good place for a child to grow up. Frankly, it sucks balls. Make sure that you learn from a teacher that has been recommended to you by someone you trust unless you want to spend years of your life searching and slumming it like I did.

That being said, If you do go and you can get over your purist view, I highly recommend my master. Not only is he a great teacher, but he basically took me in as a son. I spent festivals at his house and when I went through a rough divorce and lost my daughter he was a true friend and even taught me how to cook and play Chinese chess and Weiqi, and a bit of calligraphy. He also currently has another foreign disciple that I introduced to him that can speak good Chinese and can fight really well.

My master also constantly introduced me to other masters, including other XYLHQ masters, but even though some of them were highly skilled and I learned some things from them they just couldn't compare to how great of a teacher and person my master is - or his sense of humour. This, to me, is much more important than studying a "pure" art. Also, he can kick some serious arse and is happy to spar with his students.

Guilin, the city he lives in, is small and quite beautiful by Chinese standards, especially the surrounding countryside. There is a primary school that your son can study in. There are some other foreign children in the "international programme". Prepare to pay more than other schools, though. I can give you the contact information of the headmaster if you are serious about pursuing this option.

[Bao]

Don't listen to Maarten. The education level there is excellent and with a good international school he will live in a good international surrounding. I plan to take my kid there and let him study there one or a couple of years or so. He will be far ahead of other kids when he come back in terms of language, math and a few other things. But I wouldn't put him in a pure Chinese school. I don't think he would learn good social skills that are important in the western countries and it would be devestating for his creativivity as he wouldn't be encouraged to think by himself.

[MaartenSFS]

I've lived here for more than years and speak fluent Chinese. I have taught here in all levels of education and witnessed first hand the depravity of this society. DO listen to me. Don't even get me started about the "healthcare". I want you to seriously consider what I am saying because it could ruin your life and those of your family if you just jump in head first. Living in China is not a fucking vacation. You had better prepare to make some crazy sacrifices - not even mentioning the lower standard of living.

And teaching English sucks. Most schools will try to wring every bit of profit or benefit out of you until there is nothing but a desiccated husk left. It gets the bills paid, though, and gives you time to train. That's why I have been doing that for nine of my years here. Let me know if you have any questions. I don't regret coming here, but I had nothing to lose.

[Wuji]

There is a lot of background as to why I want to go to China (and other countries).

Maarten, I'm sort of in a situation that sounds like what you were in when you decided to take the plunge (as in, not really having much to lose). I'm going to be done with my degree soon(ish). I'll be graduating with a Computer Science degree (major), and an education (my minor). I'm worked in the computer and customer service industry for a long time, and I can say I'm getting to the point of hating it. The only reason I'm even getting a degree is to stay competitive. When I first started, almost all training was in house and self taught. Most of the best programmers I know didn't have a degree until recently. Outside of schooling, I've always wanted to be a teacher. Though, having met my wife when she was 17 and I was 20, brought about criminal charges.

Long story short, I ended up with a sex crime. Misdemeanor, but it doesn't really matter why how people think about it when they hear/see it. I'm no longer on the registry or anything like that, i was removed. One of the few crimes that allows for you to be removed (up there with urinating in public, and a few others). Anyway, that keeps me from teaching pretty much anywhere in America, which is what I want to do professionally. I've been with the same woman sense then, she is my sons mother. I found who I wanted to me with young. Been together for a while now. So, I thought that teaching in a different country sounded like a good idea. China sounded best, because it holds a lot of interest to me. Scholastically compared to the US, martial arts, etc.

I should have made it clear that this wont just be me, this will be me, my wife, and our son all going. I've thought about working for someone based in the US, and doing remote work where ever I want. If I'm programming, I can work anywhere with an internet connection. Most of what I do can be done remotely. So I can ether teach, or I can do this. Both would allow me to be in China for some time. I've actually thought about trying to stay long term if I find a good company to work for remotely. 80k to 120k a year would end up being a lot more in China then it would here. Just some different ideas. I'm not a big fan of American Education, especially with the amount of bullying and the common core method that is becoming more common.

I was bullied to the point of having my nose cauterized 37 times, and broken more then I can remember. Because if a very broken education system. I don't know much about the education system in China. It can be much worse, especially compared to some of the States. I'm interested in the schools you spoke of though. What teacher is it you said that charges 10,000 to become a disciple? What does this mean exactly, what all does this encompass? I would prefer a more pure method, but depending on the teacher, I'm very opened. It would be awesome to have a teacher to actually spar with. I'm such a big dude ( 6 foot 8, with the weight to go with it), that it' difficult to find people willing to spar with me XD.

My wife is planning on helping the my sons education too, if that makes much of a difference. She's never done any kind of homeschooling or anything like that, but e have checked into it lightly. I understand the idea of sacrifice. Though, when you don't have much, there isn't a lot to sacrifice, is there? We own our place (a smaller trailer), though I have thought about renting this out for additional income. It wouldn't bring in a lot, but it would be additional income. I don't have much family, and everyone kind of does there own thing. Same for my wife. We've actually lived away from family for years, and only see them once a year or so. The most important to me is first making sure my son can have a good education. Second would be a good teacher.

Tell me some more about your teacher Maarten, I'm interested.

[grzegorz]

I am glad to hear that your wife is coming too that is very different from my first impressions. In that case though I would recommend the big cities because you can make two or three times than what you make in the country and your family will have access to all things western. Obviously if you were just paying for yourself then teaching anywhere would be easier but outside of the major cities money will be a struggle for three. Also if you plan on staying long term then money is even more important because you will want to buy a place.

Have you considered Taiwan?

Also be sure to check the school requirements. Some places in China are starting to require background checks due to unscrupulous foreign teachers doing unspeakable things to their students. Of course we all have regrets from the past but you might want to find out ahead of time what they look for but I am sure you will find someone who will take you.

[nicklinjm]

Just on the Qs Wuji had specifically for me: don't want to mention specific names, as the guy has students on this forum. PM me if you want to know. The RMB 10,000 is a discipleship fee (baishi fei) - as usual with all things CMA in China, there is no guarantee you would get taught more than an ordinary student, and definitely no sparring with the teacher (v few Chinese TCMA teachers spar seriously with their students, this is a question of face).

Think you still have a very idealised vision of Trad kungfu teachers here: the reality is that a lot of the trad kungfu teachers here either (a) can't fight, i.e. have not used their art in free sparring, (b) can fight but are v conservative about what they teach, or (c) are gouging their students for money. For example there is another Chen taiji teacher in Shanghai who charges RMB 3,000 every 3 months for jut teaching form.

All the guys on here who met great teachers who essentially took them into their family (Maarten, gregorz, my friend Will [monkeystealspeach]) are in the lucky minority, and I'm sure went through several dodgy / bad teachers before they found their final shifu.

I know for a fact that there is now XYLH being taught in Taipei. Taiwan is a much less toxic environment for foreigners generally, you would definitely be able to find a job teaching, and your son should be able to get into a primary school there relatively easily.

[yeniseri]

My daughter taught English while on an internship (2014) at a hotel and from what I understand, it is your personal contacts that can either make or break your trip!
Regions (part of country) matters (in her case Beijing and Shanghai)! Her only problem was that she wanted to travel to more places but she had to work 1/2 day on Saturdays while teaching and that cut down on travel time when she had time off. She did not renew her contract.

If one finds a good teacher, or someone who is associated with on,e take up the opportuity to study with that teacher instead of trying to find the perfect teacher form the gitgo. Again, contacts matter.
She visited Cang county (Hebei province) hotbed of CMA but just [passed through as her acquanitenance was visiting relative closeby. Just having a contact and having a place to stay is a good start considering the distinction between a "traditional" and a "modern" teacher capable of a teaching methodology that imparts skill and further areas of knowledge.

Henan branch is sometimes referred to by practitioners as Xinyi Liuhe Quan instead of simply xingyiquan. This may be attributed to the fact that the Muslim community of China was historically a very closed culture in order to protect themselves as a minority, thus retaining the older addition to the name of Xingyi. Liuhe means "Six Harmonies" and refers to the six harmonies of the body (hips, feet, knees, elbows etc.) that contribute to correct posture.

[MaartenSFS]

I concur about Taiwan. Your degree should be enough as well. If there are good teachers to learn from there.

I definitely went through a lot of bad teachers before I found the right one, that's for sure! That foreigner I mentioned is about the same height as me (192cm) and much bigger. He's an American. My master doesn't do it for the money. He really loves Gongfu and students that are willing to dedicate themselves to it. You can teach him some English. At the moment he can't speak almost any, but he's been talking about learning some for ages. You can hardly speak Chinese. The other American can translate. Sounds perfect.

Also, you would not only be learning from one master, but probably up to half a dozen, since they all have a good relationship and like to horse around. One of them is a XYLHQ master from Henan with the best Gongfu I've seen. Not the bester teacher, though, but once you have learned from Zou Shifu for a while it might be cool to go look him up for a short duration (Henan is a shithole). Most of these masters also have their own little sparring groups. I never really took advantage of this, as I had more than enough to learn and enough people to train with under Zou Shifu, but just watching them interact and train together gave me great new insights and I did learn a thing or two from each.

Having a degree is great. It means you can legally work here, which will make your life easier. I highly recommend you to have a lot of savings or really good medical insurance, though it still won't save you from the incompetent, indifferent, evil doctors here. Learn Chinese ASAP. It SAVED MY LIFE on several occasions and it's nowhere near as difficult as some would have you believe.

Check out my photo posts in the off topic section to see what the region looks like (the nice things in the region at least). Also, check out two three short documentaries about my master and I from two years ago on my Youtube channel to get a better idea of what the training is like. If you have any more questions send them my way. I totally feel for you.

Trust me, though; unless you are living in a really dangerous neighbourhood in the U.S, poverty in China is worse and the Chinese education system is even worse. The environment in most Chinese cities is also toxic. Guilin is on the better end of the spectrum, but still much worse than you've probably experienced. The water and food are probably worse, but you can't tell just by looking at them. Still, two years in Guilin won't kill you. Three years in Beijing literally killed a Dutch runner, though. Ironically, he was running to maintain his good health...

[Wuji]

I don't know about China much at all, outside of the bit that I have read. I spent a large portion of my life in Mississippi, which up until recently had one of the lowest minimum wages in the country, an a huge cost of living (at least, it's on par with Oregon, so the cost of living compared to what you make is terrible). I haven't been to the area lately, but it was pretty bad when I was there. The children would bully the teachers (I saw a 12 year old beat the crap out of a teacher when I went to school). The level of poverty was so low that most people had 2 jobs to survive. I mean, 200 a week on a full time job, before taxes. Nearly impossible to live on. Not saying one is worse then the other, an I know as far as the States go, there are far worse areas to live in.

Your teacher sounds really cool! I would absolutely love to meet him. When I'm done with this, I'm going to go check those pictures out. My teacher learned from Yu Hualong directly, though from what I understand he was in China for only a year. He learned from some other people too, though as far as what he learned from Shrfu Yu Hualong, I think in the next year I'll be coming up on what he had learned (from him anyway). Me and my teacher get along very well, and I love how he teaches. I just want to continue on with what I want to learn. It oesn't have to be China, I'm happy with Taiwan too. I just know as far as allowing people in, and teaching, China is a lot more easy going. I have a friend who didn't even have a Diploma/GED when he went to teach. If I recall, technically the Chinese Government more or less suggests a degree be had to teach, but it isn't always possible.

The same guy ended up tutoring people privately and made way more then he said he ever did teaching. He said private tutoring/teaching was what really worked for him. So, lets play this out in two scenarios. China, and Taiwan. If I came to where you're teacher is Maarten, how is it living and teaching there? is it affordable for a three person family? We don't live on a lot right now. Right now we are living on my student loans mostly, the grant is mostly sucked up for my classes and books. Loans, a paper route (900 a month), state assistance, etc. All together we end up with about 17k. Which is enough, but barely. It doesn't leave much left over. How would living there on a teachers salary compare to what I'm getting right now? Also, who is the XYLH teacher that you speak of in Henan?

On the other side, what would be the difference to living in Taiwan? It kind of seems like it would be less of a culture shock, and education would be easier. e're really thinking about home schooling, just trying to still figure out ways to get social experience for our son. I don't plan on staying anywhere right now, ideally we want to travel for a few years. Though at some point, we do want to buy a house. From what I've looked at, Taiwan is awesome. China did scare me a little bit for the long term because of the pollution. There are to companies (start ups) in Oregon alone that are trying to sell clean air to the Chinese people. Literally, clean, local air, in bottles. I also think that growing up in a different country would provide a lot of benefit that you don't find in America. One of those being that a second language is common, if not a third language. Also, the idea of teachings more hands on with book learning makes a lot more sense, and is far more engrossing of a teaching method.

Why talk about a volcano and show pictures when you live close to one and can go to it physically? Being able to both read about something, write about it (like essays), and being able to physically see it and experience it brings about a new level of learning. American history as the most boring subject to me. Even World History, even though I love it. Sitting in a class room and just memorizing facts instead of experiencing and feeling the history, it's a big difference. Would you remember more about the Egyptian Pyramids if you walked through them, touched them, too pictures, or if you just read about them? Or would doing that make reading about it more enjoyable. Just my personal idea on education, and I hope to be able to add some of that to how my son learns. China is the first place on the list, or Taiwan, though we have a small list of other areas. We haven't completely decided on where to live when all is said and done.

I have decided that it wont be America. With a criminal record, it really limits my choices of work. Regardless of the facts behind it, doesn't matter. I really want to hear more about living and working in both areas, and the teachers. You mentioned your teacher Maarten, and I'm going to check out the videos you mentioned. I would like to hear about the other teacher you mentioned too. As far as teachers go, what good teachers are available in Taiwan that teach XYLH? At one point, I really wanted to learn from Yu Hualongs son. I know he teaches up in Canada, I think Victoria? Something like that. But going up there, living, staying, isn't plausible. I also wouldn't be able to teach there to pay the bills.

Thanks for all the help everyone. It's been very helpful thus far!

[grzegorz]

You can probably find a lot online as to why Taiwan would probably be better for your family. Obviously if you had a good job lined up in China and spoke Chinese then it would less of an issue. But ultimately I would choose Taiwan for my family in fact I would even live there w/o training. The standard of living is much higher. They even have socialized medicine and the cops actually do their job as opposed to mainland cops who are looking to shake you down for a bribe.

[windwalker]

.

I really wanted to learn from Yu Hualongs son. I know he teaches up in Canada, I think Victoria? Something like that. But going up there, living, staying, isn't plausible. I also wouldn't be able to teach there to pay the bills.

Thanks for all the help everyone. It's been very helpful thus far!

http://www.liuhebafachuan.com/bio-paulroberts.html

You might want to connect with Paul "drifting" if he still post here
met him in HK awhile back very skilled in his art, very nice guy.
Although its not the style you mentioned he might have some contacts or insights
that might help you to consider your move.

I would tend to agree with the others, I do and still like China, but Taiwan is much easier on many levels to live here.

Used to work as an expat for this company http://www.ultratech.tw/ they have many overseas positions. The work is very interesting
and challenging. I don't think your personal back ground mentioned would be much of an issue with them just depends on your skill set
and whether its something you could do and have an interest in.

best of luck.