Importance of Weapons in Your System?

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Importance of Weapons in Your System?

Postby MaartenSFS on Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:35 pm

So, I recently put more-or-less the final touches on my system and now I am wondering if I need to add a weapon or not to round out the package. Most of the unarmed applications in my art double up as knife techniques and I will spend some time on that with students, but the fact is that, if someone pulls a knife, your best bet is to GTFO.

I have always been interested in swords and staves, but I feel like they just aren't that practical in this day and age and to become proficient in weapons use one must first be able to fight well unarmed. And to fight well unarmed, one must train unarmed fighting! So, there just isn't that much time. And it would take a lot of time, because learning the sword or something isn't just learning a new fucking form, but more like learning an entire new art. I'd want to be able to spar with the weapon and try to get as close to how it was used during ancient times as possible. Otherwise, what's the point?

So, my question is this; If my goal is to get students in the door that want to learn to defend themselves, how important is it to have weapon training (besides the above mentioned knife stuff) in the curriculum?

Currently, I don't even have a form. I tore apart all my forms (some of which I made together with my master), took out all of the most practical, high-efficiency techniques, that can be used with or without gloves, experimented with different combinations against boxers and put together a group of them that can prepare someone for most scenarios with entering moves and at least one follow-up move that can be mixed and matched. I'm thinking of making a short and sweet form with these top techniques, but in doing so I'd remove it further from reality, so we'll see..

Are students going to be hell-bent on learning this shit or will they appreciate that I've worked so hard to create this system that will get them out of the door, ready to kick arse if need be, in the shortest amount of time (and using traditional IMA)?
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Impotance of Weapons in Your System?

Postby BruceP on Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:01 pm

Learn to fight with your belt. I wrote some stuff on here about belt choices (leather, webbing, buckle types and their construction etc) and maybe some basic training. Tried search terms to find the post but it's an old post and the search function is hard

We've used fencing helms and hockey gloves for practicing defensive distancing and timing. It can be rolled once or twice on the hand for lower ceilings and small movements in tighter quarters.
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Re: Impotance of Weapons in Your System?

Postby everything on Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:30 pm

It depends on your philosophy of emergency preparedness.
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Re: Importance of Weapons in Your System?

Postby MaartenSFS on Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:04 pm

The belt idea is not bad, as a sparring of partner of mine favours the Sanjiebian (not gun). I'm sure that the techniques could easily be adapted. My question is more about students' expectations than preparedness, though.
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Re: Importance of Weapons in Your System?

Postby Wuji on Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:19 am

I think certain things are practical and worth while to train for different reasons. I have a big spear (as big as you can have shipped to you in the US). I love training with it. I think it can really teach power development. I don't know a lot, but it's very fun and I think it can really help with development. I like the chain whip too, but it's a personal preference. Staff, and I think bow.

- Spear - Power development

- Chain Whip - Develops the waist, and precision. I think that the chain whip also can correlate to a lot of things. To a belt, for example, to a garrote. So, there is a lot of use for it. One of the teachers I've had in XYLH told me that "we do everything difficult". If you can use a chain whip and not hurt yourself, then there is a good chance you wont hurt yourself with something equal, or less. A lot of the same movements correlate to to something like a belt, a long sleeve (like if you are wearing a hoodie), etc.I saw a demo where a guy uses the sleeve to his hoodie as a garrote, kind of a cool idea. Same idea, it would be a flexible weapon.

- Staff - I think a lot of the training of a staff can be transferred over to many tools that are modern. Sticks on the ground, branches, even a hammer (if you really had to). The general idea is the same. I can't think of much more universal than a staff. This would also corelate to the more modern weapons, such as batons, walking sticks, canes, or even umbrellas.

- Bow - I like the idea of a bow for a couple reasons. First, it teaches you to be calm, and to breath. You can shoot when you are stressed or tense. You have to calm yourself, relax, breath, then shoot. It also teaches structure. Lastly, it really develops strength. Not only does it develop your muscular strength, but it develops tendons strength too. If you find something that has been shooting from the time their young, to an adult, touch there back and arm. Especially so if it's something akin to a war bow (120+ pullback). It makes your back feel as if it has iron cords within it. This is one of the most beneficial training's I've done. I was lucky to have a father that enjoyed archery when I was younger. I've moved away from the modern compound bow, to the more traditional bow. Working towards being able to shoot my 120 comfortably :).

- Knives - Probably the most common weapon carried. Not the biggest fan of knives, having been cut :P. I think it's still worth while though. I'm a big fan of the Karambet. I like the fact that you can't drop it, and in fights that is a big possibility. I like the fact that you can trap with it too, having a rounded blade to it. I also like the fact that the finger hole also works with striking, if you want to be less lethal. Regardless of the knife, I think some basic knife training and knowing how to fight someone with a knife is worth while. Short story for you.

I worked security, and I still do from time to time. I was working as a bouncer, it was my first night. Ladies night. 9PM to 12PM, 5 dollars gets you anything you want (crown and down). So basically the ladies drank for 5 dollars would get them 3 hours of drinks, as much as they wanted. Guys follow woman. Long story short, I was taking out the trash and saw a guy not letting a cocktail waitress go home. Went up to stop it, he pulled a big knife on me. Strapped to his thigh, I think it was about 12 inches. Looked like a bowie or Kbar, something like that design. This guy was was very, very strong. We called him Mr. Swol at the school I went to. Big gym rat, power lifter guy. He use to be a substitute teacher at my school. He pulls the knife on me, I do the only thing I can do, taking my hoodie off of my waist. I still ended up getting cut too. I like to think my jacket did help save my life that night. Turns out the next day, the police came (for my report) and said he was on pcp, and I was lucky it didn't go much further then it did.

Point being, without the small amount of knife defense I had at the time, I could have easily had been dead. Might not be a bad idea.
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Re: Importance of Weapons in Your System?

Postby RobP3 on Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:00 am

Everything is a weapon. The stick is always a good starting point. But don't think of each weapon as a separate entity with its own forms, etc. Instead, teach people to use their "regular" movement with the weapon. You can broadly divide into bladed, flexible, hitting, etc. Of course each has it's own tactical requirements, but ideally people should be able to pick up anything and use it.
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Re: Importance of Weapons in Your System?

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:31 am

Well, using my art if you suddenly posses one or two knives or sticks, reverse or forward grip it doesn't change things much, except that your opponent is more fucked. Perhaps I'll just stick to that..

As far as the spear is concerned, I agree that they are great for power development, but are far too cumbersome to carry to training and a pain in the arse the ship, etc. That is why I am glad that I learned how to achieve a similar effect by looping a thick rope around a tree and shaking it instead.

I'll see if I can get my sparring partner to bring his Sanjiebian and show me some stuff for it before I leave this city.
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Re: Importance of Weapons in Your System?

Postby Ron Panunto on Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:50 am

Over the years I've studied sword, saber, single and double stick, staff, spear and kwandao from several different taiji systems. If you're into weapons combat, then most of these weapons have two-person sets, and if you use protective gear, you can go at it free-style. However, at this point in life I only practice walking stick (cane), as it's still the only effective weapon that you can carry anywhere.
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Re: Importance of Weapons in Your System?

Postby sinkpoint on Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:51 pm

If I were you I'd pick staff or swords, depending on how much practice area you have.
Sword and staff are entry weapons, that introduced more advanced concepts that can be hard to visualize with empty hand methods.
Since you have already learnt knife, sword can be easier to transition into. Also it's transferrable to short sticks, which might be more practical.

Staff though is an important starting point for polearms, which leads to power generation training.

Be sure to find a partner and focus on two-person exercises, and slowly ramp up to sparring as both your skills progress. Otherwise you'd just be learning another dance routine.
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Re: Importance of Weapons in Your System?

Postby MaartenSFS on Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:52 am

I think that I'm just going to stick to what I already have, as there doesn't seem to be anyone willing to train a bit harder. Also, I broke my foot and am waiting for it to recover. My master is developing an easy-to-learn system from his sword stuff, which, as you say, is very adaptable to sticks. Hopefully I'll get the chance to learn it from him some day, perhaps when he comes to visit me in the U.S.. :)
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Re: Importance of Weapons in Your System?

Postby greytowhite on Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:47 am

Daqiang training can really charge your up/down power and level changes. Staff can help you develop tongbei and crossing power. Swords can help with applying heavy/light interchangeably. Rope dart will up your agility and circle walking if you practice that. Tonfa will help you develop a solid guard stance from multiple angles. War hammer or war club can help you develop your throwing and joining. Sais can be used for pinpoint striking. Knives can help one develop head control, vital area striking, and more. Really, the list goes on and on. These empty hand arts were always preparation for going out into the real world and probably using a weapon against somebody else.
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Re: Importance of Weapons in Your System?

Postby johnwang on Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:55 am

The best weapon that can be used in fighting.

Image

Image

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Re: Importance of Weapons in Your System?

Postby yeniseri on Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:11 pm



the man with da brick is boss
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Re: Importance of Weapons in Your System?

Postby taiwandeutscher on Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:51 pm

13 Qiang training is most important for our Hulei TJQ (Zhang Suisheng lineage), as our Hulingjin is based on Long(pole)spear power generation. It is a system, in which it is very clear, that the handforms developed out of weapons usage!
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Re: Importance of Weapons in Your System?

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:55 am

Spear training is one way to learn some crazy Shenfa. Rope shaking, tree shaking, etc. are other ways. Not all involve holding something, but I trained several methods and am happy that I did. ;D Spear develops great power. I wish that I had trained it more. But oh well.. I got other stuff that I'm very happy with and which is more convenient to train.
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