Abdominal breathing

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Abdominal breathing

Postby Patrick on Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:42 am

A great physical culturist wrote the following:

Image
Image

As I recall many practice a form of abdominal breathing, so how would you argue that this is wrong?
Last edited by Patrick on Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.dhyana-fitness.at- The philosophy and practice of a healthy life
User avatar
Patrick
Wuji
 
Posts: 2336
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:52 am

Re: Abdominal breathing

Postby Steve Rowe on Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:35 am

The writing seems to be a bit simplistic. Any mammal at rest or asleep uses the abdominal and chest muscles in the breathing process and when too excited use the chest only, the longer you can maintain the deeper, slower breathing, the calmer you remain. From a fighters perspective when the opponent loses control of their breathing, the quicker they fatigue and the easier they are to beat and chest only action disconnects the upper/lower body connection. I would suggest it's not one or the other but engaging as much of the body as you can.
If you see someone without a smile - give 'em one of yours...
User avatar
Steve Rowe
Wuji
 
Posts: 1670
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:09 pm
Location: Chatham Kent UK

Re: Abdominal breathing

Postby RobP3 on Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:07 am

Shallow, burst / panting, chest, deep chest, ab breathing, reverse ab breathing, all have a time and place. Why not learn each of them?
"Remember, if your life seems dull and boring - it is" Derek & Clive
www.systemauk.com
RobP3
Wuji
 
Posts: 811
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:30 am
Location: UK

Re: Abdominal breathing

Postby Patrick on Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:24 am

RobP3 wrote:Shallow, burst / panting, chest, deep chest, ab breathing, reverse ab breathing, all have a time and place. Why not learn each of them?


Sensible opinion. As of now I have no [strong] opinion on that matter (yet) ;) . I simply want to hear the perspectives and pointers why people think he is wrong and maybe make a good case for abdominal breathing.

His (Monte Saldo, the author) point is that proper breathing incorporates all the breathing muscles and is whole, not segmental.
Last edited by Patrick on Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.dhyana-fitness.at- The philosophy and practice of a healthy life
User avatar
Patrick
Wuji
 
Posts: 2336
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:52 am

Re: Abdominal breathing

Postby cloudz on Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:50 am

Ah yes "proper",the great leveller.
Do tell.
Regards
George

London UK
cloudz
Great Old One
 
Posts: 3393
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:00 am
Location: London UK

Re: Abdominal breathing

Postby GrahamB on Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:11 am

He (I'm assuming it's written by a man, because it sounds kind of pompous) doesn't seem to be aware of the role of the diaphragm in breathing.

Wrote this recently: https://bjjnotebook.com/2017/03/12/brea ... -the-road/
Last edited by GrahamB on Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
One does not simply post on RSF.
The Tai Chi Notebook
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 13555
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: Abdominal breathing

Postby Dmitri on Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:52 am

What Rob said. Play with it, explore it all; you don't need anyone else's opinion -- you have a body and can breathe, so try a few things and see what works and when. There are benefits to both types IME.

BTW the old disciplines the quotes from the OP are criticizing (I'm presuming things like yoga or qigong?) are not advocating to only breathe from abdomen at all times, or that it is somehow ultimately/absolutely superior -- only that it has "extra" benefits not found in "shallow"/chest breathing. They both have chest-level breathing in the curriculum, so the criticism is very narrow/one-sided.
Last edited by Dmitri on Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:36 am, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
Dmitri
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9736
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:04 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA (USA)

Re: Abdominal breathing

Postby Patrick on Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:19 am

Thanks graham, the author (Monte Saldo) and his partner (Maxick) are famous for the control of the abdominal muscles (like Rickson does).

The point of the author as i understood it, is not to do a shallow chest breathing, but to incorporate - besides the diaphragm- also the intercostal muscles to allow for full expansion of the lungs.
http://www.dhyana-fitness.at- The philosophy and practice of a healthy life
User avatar
Patrick
Wuji
 
Posts: 2336
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:52 am

Re: Abdominal breathing

Postby I am... on Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:30 am

I agree that breathing using the torso, or even having our movements breathe for us are good skills to develop.

As I learned it in buddhism, and my martial arts training, proper "abdominal" breathing does not really have the stomach distending much. A band of the transversus abdominis or something similar is engaged below the belly button.
http://www.appliedcombat.com

"Once you have firmly decided that you face certain death, overwhelming thoughts of fear will be exhausted in your mind..."
-Hirayama Shiryu-
User avatar
I am...
Wuji
 
Posts: 901
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:58 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Abdominal breathing

Postby robert on Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:08 am

Patrick wrote:A great physical culturist wrote the following:

As I recall many practice a form of abdominal breathing, so how would you argue that this is wrong?

I would point out the physiology of breathing. As has been pointed out the diaphragm moves downward when we inhale.

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/301notes6.htm
The method of practicing this boxing art is nothing more than opening and closing, passive and active. The subtlety of the art is based entirely upon their alternations. Chen Xin
robert
Wuji
 
Posts: 741
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:32 am

Re: Abdominal breathing

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:34 pm

Not with all people
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 5666
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: Abdominal breathing

Postby GrahamB on Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:12 am

He's right - Australians are already living down under, so their diaphragms move in the opposite direction.
One does not simply post on RSF.
The Tai Chi Notebook
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 13555
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: Abdominal breathing

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:57 am

It always moves down but some people don't use the downward motion fully and breath intercostially
This can be made worse when people draw in the abdominal wall when breathing in
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 5666
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm


Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests