the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

A great physical culturist wrote the following:




As I recall many practice a form of abdominal breathing, so how would you argue that this is wrong?

The writing seems to be a bit simplistic. Any mammal at rest or asleep uses the abdominal and chest muscles in the breathing process and when too excited use the chest only, the longer you can maintain the deeper, slower breathing, the calmer you remain. From a fighters perspective when the opponent loses control of their breathing, the quicker they fatigue and the easier they are to beat and chest only action disconnects the upper/lower body connection. I would suggest it's not one or the other but engaging as much of the body as you can.

Shallow, burst / panting, chest, deep chest, ab breathing, reverse ab breathing, all have a time and place. Why not learn each of them?

RobP3 wrote:Shallow, burst / panting, chest, deep chest, ab breathing, reverse ab breathing, all have a time and place. Why not learn each of them?

Sensible opinion. As of now I have no [strong] opinion on that matter (yet) . I simply want to hear the perspectives and pointers why people think he is wrong and maybe make a good case for abdominal breathing.

His (Monte Saldo, the author) point is that proper breathing incorporates all the breathing muscles and is whole, not segmental.

Ah yes "proper",the great leveller.
Do tell.

He (I'm assuming it's written by a man, because it sounds kind of pompous) doesn't seem to be aware of the role of the diaphragm in breathing.

Wrote this recently: https://bjjnotebook.com/2017/03/12/brea ... -the-road/

What Rob said. Play with it, explore it all; you don't need anyone else's opinion -- you have a body and can breathe, so try a few things and see what works and when. There are benefits to both types IME.

BTW the old disciplines the quotes from the OP are criticizing (I'm presuming things like yoga or qigong?) are not advocating to only breathe from abdomen at all times, or that it is somehow ultimately/absolutely superior -- only that it has "extra" benefits not found in "shallow"/chest breathing. They both have chest-level breathing in the curriculum, so the criticism is very narrow/one-sided.

Thanks graham, the author (Monte Saldo) and his partner (Maxick) are famous for the control of the abdominal muscles (like Rickson does).

The point of the author as i understood it, is not to do a shallow chest breathing, but to incorporate - besides the diaphragm- also the intercostal muscles to allow for full expansion of the lungs.

I agree that breathing using the torso, or even having our movements breathe for us are good skills to develop.

As I learned it in buddhism, and my martial arts training, proper "abdominal" breathing does not really have the stomach distending much. A band of the transversus abdominis or something similar is engaged below the belly button.

Patrick wrote:A great physical culturist wrote the following:

As I recall many practice a form of abdominal breathing, so how would you argue that this is wrong?

I would point out the physiology of breathing. As has been pointed out the diaphragm moves downward when we inhale.

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/301notes6.htm

Not with all people

He's right - Australians are already living down under, so their diaphragms move in the opposite direction.

It always moves down but some people don't use the downward motion fully and breath intercostially
This can be made worse when people draw in the abdominal wall when breathing in