Sparring in CMA

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Sparring in CMA

Postby Fatal Rose on Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:10 pm

Has anyone successfully incorporated sparring into their gongfu classes? If so, how'd you do it? I really like push hands but I also very much enjoy point fighting in Shotokan and full contact sparring in MMA.
I've seen some BaJiQuan sparring/competition videos on YouTube and it looked very interesting.
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Re: Sparring in CMA

Postby MaartenSFS on Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:47 am

Can you elaborate? ALL Gongfu classes should already include sparring, so not sure what you are looking for.. As to what method of sparring, I really enjoy both light glove-less sparring, harder gloved sparring and hardcore headgear and gloves sparring and each have their place. The strategies and techniques are different (to an extent) for each method, which keeps it interesting.Then there is Tuishou, Chishou etc., but that isn't sparring, though still very practical.
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sparring in CMA

Postby JoeWood on Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:32 am

Start off easy & gradually ramp up the intensity. The goal should be to help each other find our weaknesses/limitations in order to overcome them, not to try and kill each other. I prefer MMA format.
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Re: Sparring in CMA

Postby JessOBrien on Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:28 am

None of my classes have gloved sparring. That's something to do on your own time and most of my students wouldn't be interested in full contact fighting.

When sparring with friends, I prefer kickboxing format, 16 oz gloves and shin guards allow you to strike without hurting the other person, MMA gloves make me feel like I have to hold back.

I don't practice or teach ground fighting, and we train without mats so throws and grappling aren't part of the sparring we do.
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Re: Sparring in CMA

Postby .Q. on Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:10 am

If you're starting from scratch, it's good to design sparring sessions progressively. Besides going light at first it's also good to limit the number of allowed techniques, etc. e.g., Start by having 1 side defend only and another attack only, maybe limiting to jabs or 1,2s. Afterwards start allowing hooks, then allow simultaneous attack and defense using limited techniques, then more techniques/harder.
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Re: Sparring in CMA

Postby windwalker on Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:37 am


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3xO5RgcMIU

The teachers name was Ron Dong, one of Gorge Longs students
It's called white crane, the student with his hands up is using what are called crane aspects,
mobility, evasiveness ect.

The student with his hands down is using the gorilla or ape aspects
power, positioning ect.

Both move and use the stances of the system. At one time the stances were practiced on top of
tree stumps in whats called a plum flower pattern, or as seen here stars were painted on the floor.
Image


Another similar style or sister style lama hop gar
uses the same types of ideas and format.

Back in the day, gloves were used along with shin guards, for beginning level students.
The style itself was known as a "fighting" style and was practiced as such at the time.

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http://focusingemptiness.com/index.php/ ... WhiteCrane

mike staples and ron dong, showing the different aspects of the system
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:00 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Sparring in CMA

Postby RobP3 on Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:43 am

Some people might find my new book useful. It shows how to set up and develop sparring, attribute drills, scenarios and also advises on how to structure training sessions. Available direct or via Amazon

http://selz.co/E18U1mVlM

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Re: Sparring in CMA

Postby bruised on Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:56 am

if we are talking distinctions of sparing in say... MMA vs internal martial arts, consider the following:

sparing is a tool to help practitioners
those in MMA practice how to fight, or how to master the rules of the game.
MMA practitioners practice to better fight and win the game

what does an internal martial artist practice for?
to understand internal energy
how does one spar for internal energy? .
practice to become very sensitive to your (opponent's) energy
this means exaggerating what you feel from your opponent (for the sake and practice of all parties involved). i mention this to help explain why CMA sparring looks "FAKE" and why videos of masters teaching students looks so ridiculous. the person receives the blow and instead of blocking the energy, exaggerates it to help become familiar with a version of it within themselves.
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Re: Sparring in CMA

Postby windwalker on Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:52 am

Practicing to play an instrument is not the same as playing an instrument.
When you play all aspects of your practice should be evident to those looking on.
There are no distinctions between internal or external there is only the play.
Whether one played​ well or not is the result of ones practice and understanding.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sparring in CMA

Postby johnwang on Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:50 am

In sparring, there is no "internal" or external involve but "strategy". Sparring help you to train "entering" and "finish". You use a

- kick to set up a punch,
- punch to set up a clinch.
- clinch to set up a throw.
- throw to set up your ground game.

I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: Sparring in CMA

Postby bartekb on Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:39 pm


at no point in this video anyone is sparring.
If they were I am fairly sure we wouldnt see too much of that kind of poses:
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Mr Wangs clip is definitelly sparring - guy is competent enough in all the distances and as usual - looks like sparring.
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Re: Sparring in CMA

Postby windwalker on Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:37 am

edited: :P
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:36 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Sparring in CMA

Postby windwalker on Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:54 am

Edited previous post.

understanding it was a reaction from my past,,,,
any questions about the style have been covered in other threads.

I spent a large part of my youth answering questions about the style in the only way one could or should answer 8-)
I guess my response is a reaction even though I stopped practicing the style many, many yrs ago.


In walking the circle one learns how to cut it, and arrive at interception points. One is able to move in before another can put
their foot down to take a step....its not like boxing foot work very different. In the clips shown, if one looks they can see the aspect of the crane and ape in use.
You might say one works from inside the circle the other from the outside....its about space and distance...

Hop gar among other CMA is or was noted as a fighting style back in the day. People who trained in this where what was called enforcers
in the various China towns. You noted some of its history, I kindly suggest reading more about it.
Mike, and another teacher wanted to add boxing hands so the other teacher could compete in one of the full contact venues of the day.
It was at this time I left feeling the the training was being driven by something I had little interest in.

What he did and taught was functional, practical, in some aspects he was kind of ahead of his time.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24777
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sparring in CMA

Postby Young Grasshopper on Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:16 am

Is there any decent old CMA sparring clips?
Last edited by Young Grasshopper on Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sparring in CMA

Postby shoebox55 on Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:35 am

MaartenSFS wrote:Can you elaborate? ALL Gongfu classes should already include sparring, so not sure what you are looking for.. As to what method of sparring, I really enjoy both light glove-less sparring, harder gloved sparring and hardcore headgear and gloves sparring and each have their place. The strategies and techniques are different (to an extent) for each method, which keeps it interesting.Then there is Tuishou, Chishou etc., but that isn't sparring, though still very practical.



Hi MaartenSFS,

You have experience sparring and you seem to know what is good sparring in CMA from your posts. Can you provide any videos of your teachers/classmates sparring?
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