the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Well, the debate isn't between traditional and modern. Shuai jiao is as ancient and traditional as any tcma, and any well trained shuai jiao practitioner could enter any combat sport competition and show well. There's no doubt that it can also be used "as is" in a self-defense situation. Why hasn't it "evolved"? Imo, it's simply a matter of form meeting function and, especially, how it's practiced.

Anyway, remember that Niall is a tai chi guy, and that he posted videos of his teacher and his teacher's teacher doing full-contact a half-century ago. It might have been right after WW2, and may have been the first time gloves were used. But, the point was that whatever had been trained was adapted for use. And, it doesn't mean that there was or is no use or function for one or more tcc "forms."

[quote="MaartenSFS"]I think that the matches are fixed in that they choose opponents whose skill levels aren't in the same league (or planet).

Anyways, I'm going to make some videos with my student in the next several weeks that show effective traditional techniques that cannot be "Sanda-fied". I know that you won't be satisfied because it won't be in a pro-level competition, but it will be against a fully resisting opponent. He will wear a headguard and gloves and I'll just wear gloves. That should give him the extra courage he needs to let me have it.[/quote

Jaysus... ya just don't get it do ya?

Let's pretend it's football...
you got your soccer shit going on, and the lads you train with all train soccer... or at least are willin to accept said rules / culture...

Turn up to a "freer" format like say rugby and I guarantee your soccer game will be crushed.

Real life doesn't have rules, unlike the "wulin" fantasy... in that environment the lad training with less rules and less contrived expression is better prepared!

Count down to fall back on street figters ain't pro level combat sport athletes... sure sure... a half arsed, sometimes works approach is to be celebrated?

Its just the traditional practitioners who follow tradition and involve themselves in combat sports as part of their development are more practiced dealing realistically with bad intent!

And more importantly the type capable of dealing out bad intent... you know the stuff martial arts were designed to protect us from... not the cripples who can be swatted away like flies.

MaartenSFS wrote:I think that the matches are fixed in that they choose opponents whose skill levels aren't in the same league (or planet).

Anyways, I'm going to make some videos with my student in the next several weeks that show effective traditional techniques that cannot be "Sanda-fied". I know that you won't be satisfied because it won't be in a pro-level competition, but it will be against a fully resisting opponent. He will wear a headguard and gloves and I'll just wear gloves. That should give him the extra courage he needs to let me have it.

It's not so much about me being satisfied. You make comments about competition clips; why should anything less than that qualify as supporting any statements ("claims") you make USING competition clips as your comparison AND "proof" of your statements ?

That situation is a fallacy in my eyes.

I'm sorry, but you are the one being unfair, if you think anything less than like for like should be satisfactory to anyone.. Fairs fair and you know it! As to your sparring being satisfying to me or whomever, well I'm sure it will be I think - as sparring.

You have to keep in mind we have different experiences and goals, so what satisfies me for my goals is not the same as what is ok for your goals. Like you've put together your style, so have I... Only I've done it based on facing off with people from different backgrounds (often mixed); Sanda/ TCMA, Judo, MMA, MT, BJJ, Free style Wrestling, Kickboxing.

Having said that. I think in particular you can do with people with a similar height and reach, or at least weight. People that have a different background would be ideal, but it's not that important if you don't have the goal of matching up to a wider world of sport fighting. I always look forward to and am happy to see and share in peoples sparring practice. Good on you for putting things out there.