這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby GrahamB on Fri May 26, 2017 3:38 pm

"This could be a good thing"

What bloody planet are you living on mate?

It's 1984 all over again.

“He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother”


― George Orwell, 1984
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby johnwang on Fri May 26, 2017 3:39 pm

bartekb wrote: dont run your mouth on how effective you and your style are if theres virtually nothing that proves it .

All my life, I have tried to find those "less public" and "top CMA guys" who can fight, so far, I haven't found any. The reason can be the following:

- I'm unlucky.
- My standard is too high.
- Those people truly don't exist.
- ...

When Bruce Frantzis was in Taiwan, he made pubic statement, "I can't find anybody who is qualified to teach me in Taiwan." He would never walked into a boxing gym and made such statement. It's pretty sad for TCMA. Where are those "less public top CMA fighters"?

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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby bartekb on Fri May 26, 2017 4:10 pm

He would never walked into a boxing gym and made such statement. It's pretty sad for TCMA. Where are those "less public top CMA fighters"?

there was a ving tsun guy that made such claim in public tv where I live - that he can win with high level boxer
he had to retract this comment publicly very quickly - and he did

I find people that claim their style is effective and having nothing to prove it - very disrespectful to the actual styles and people (including TCMA) that actually train and compete - heavily risking their health in the process
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby Shinobi on Fri May 26, 2017 5:12 pm

wayne hansen wrote:The service station incident in Brasil shows that


What was the service station incident?
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby Steve James on Fri May 26, 2017 5:14 pm

In NYC, I've never heard of any CMA person walking into Gleason's and saying that boxing isn't effective. And, the first problem would be that he was making the claim. The second problem is that, if you're going to say that what you do is superior, you need to back it up personally, not point to someone else.
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby johnwang on Fri May 26, 2017 5:42 pm

Steve James wrote:The second problem is that, if you're going to say that what you do is superior, you need to back it up personally, not point to someone else.

If we ask people the following question:

- "Do you have friends who has seen ghost?" We may get 100% respond for that.
- "Have you seen ghost?" We may get 0% respond for that.

The problem is when someone tells you that he has seen ghost, how much should you trust his words? When my brother in law told me that his father had lighting skill and could jump on top of the roof. I didn't believe him back then. I still don't believe him even today.
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby windwalker on Fri May 26, 2017 5:46 pm

All my life, I have tried to find those "less public" and "top CMA guys" who can fight, so far, I haven't found any. The reason can be the following:

- I'm unlucky.
- My standard is too high.
- Those people truly don't exist.


One of my taiji bothers took on all comers while he was here.
Always felt it was unfair for those he came into contact with considering his mind set, and skill level....

Zhao attracts players from all other styles as well as beginners with little or no prior training. At 52, he does no exercise or even forms. He just pushes hands with anyone and everyone who comes by. I have seen men in their prime, twenty years younger than Zhao and twice his weight, with years and years of formal training go rolling off with big grins on their faces.

Students who witnessed it told me about how a big, buffed-out, experienced martial artist pulled up to challenge him. Spontaneous encounters are Zhao’s specialty. He is always ready. There is no perceptible moment when he appears to shift his coonsciousness or change his stature.

This encounter ended with him looking up at Zhao from the ground, having to be convinced of the potential danger and utter futility of coming back up for another attack. None of this is hyperbole. His speed and control is unnerving.

http://www.kungfuchampionship.com/sanfr ... OSHUN.html

He's in Beijing now btw,,, still testing his art against others.

Another person I knew many yrs back "James" 8 step mantis..

Grandmaster Shyun was a World Champion in Full Contact Martial Arts for five years running when only in his twenties and has acted as a combat instructor in his native Taiwan, to the Taiwanese Marine Corp. He has traveled abroad to instruct other law enforcement officers in Singapore, Japan, Germany, Australia, France and the U.S. in hand to hand combat.

In this capacity, Grandmaster Shyun arrived in California in 1983. By 1984 Grandmaster Shyun developed such affection for the U.S. that he decided to make America the motherland of his ancient arts. The Eight Step Preying Mantis System is now available across the United States due in no small part to Grandmaster Shyun’s decision to break with tradition and open the teaching of this rare system to anyone dedicated to learning it.

http://www.8step.com/mantis/grandmaster.shtml

He also would let people feel the answers to any questions they had about his art....
When I knew him he was just starting out here not so public.....

lots of people around....I'm sure at some point your luck will change, or maybe your
lucky now but don't seem to understand it.
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby C.J.W. on Fri May 26, 2017 6:01 pm

johnwang wrote:All my life, I have tried to find those "less public" and "top CMA guys" who can fight, so far, I haven't found any. The reason can be the following:

- I'm unlucky.
- My standard is too high.
- Those people truly don't exist.
- ...

When Bruce Frantzis was in Taiwan, he made pubic statement, "I can't find anybody who is qualified to teach me in Taiwan." He would never walked into a boxing gym and made such statement. It's pretty sad for TCMA. Where are those "less public top CMA fighters"?



Wouldn't you say your teacher, GM Chang, was one of the top CMA guys who could fight? ;)

I recall reading a story written by GM Chang's grandson about how Bruce Frantzis challenged GM Chang at Taipei Botanical Park, and ended up getting thrown over a low metal fence. ;D

P.S. I'd also add that Frantzis' attitude at the time was exactly why he couldn't gain access to top teachers.
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby Steve James on Fri May 26, 2017 6:14 pm

Wouldn't you say your teacher, GM Chang, was one of the top CMA guys who could fight? ;)


He was one of the top and most public fighters in China. It's a big place, but anyone who didn't know that was out of the loop, especially in Taiwan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang_Tung_Sheng
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby wayne hansen on Fri May 26, 2017 7:26 pm

Shinobi wrote:
wayne hansen wrote:The service station incident in Brasil shows that


What was the service station incident?




Two ufc guys molested a couple of girls in a service station
One was young with a 7-0 record the other 30 -6 something like that
A couple of guys came in and gave it to them ending up beating them with 2x4 ,s
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby johnwang on Fri May 26, 2017 9:09 pm

C.J.W. wrote:Wouldn't you say your teacher, GM Chang, was one of the top CMA guys who could fight? ;)

When GM Chang was young, he traveled to

- Mongol to test his skill against Mongolian wrestlers.
- Beijing foreign district to test his skill against Judo guys.

This is why I don't understand how can any "top CMA guy" be "less public".
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby C.J.W. on Fri May 26, 2017 11:35 pm

johnwang wrote:
C.J.W. wrote:Wouldn't you say your teacher, GM Chang, was one of the top CMA guys who could fight? ;)

When GM Chang was young, he traveled to

- Mongol to test his skill against Mongolian wrestlers.
- Beijing foreign district to test his skill against Judo guys.

This is why I don't understand how can any "top CMA guy" be "less public".


Not all top CMA guys like to compete in public and become well-known.

Two of the best CMA fighters I've ever met in Taiwan were those who had honed and tested their skills in underground (and often illegal) venues. One of them was a Hakka-boxing expert who worked and lived in the local red light district as a bouncer. Another guy was an enforcer/bodyguard in a gang. Since guns were illegal and rare during their time, both of them relied heavily on their empty-hand and weapon fighting skills for survival on a daily basis. I was also told by others that they had killed people in street fights and challenge matches.
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby bartekb on Sat May 27, 2017 12:42 am

C.J.W. wrote:Two of the best CMA fighters I've ever met in Taiwan were those who had honed and tested their skills in underground (and often illegal) venues. One of them was a Hakka-boxing expert who worked and lived in the local red light district as a bouncer. Another guy was an enforcer/bodyguard in a gang. Since guns were illegal and rare during their time, both of them relied heavily on their empty-hand and weapon fighting skills for survival on a daily basis. I was also told by others that they had killed people in street fights and challenge matches.


This is right here the problem.
You've goy GM Chang, a man that actually travelled, risked and openly competed to prove his art.
Then youve got some third hand stories, fairy tales, secret meetings and JCVD Bloodsport stuff.
You will always have people not willing to exchange their fantasy for reality - as reality requires effort. Then every time someone repeats the story it gets friction, sooner or later gets published on some webpage or a niche magazine and so it goes.

My dad and uncles used to play local football team, Ive heard many stories how they played barefeet and kicked metal tin as they were poor and super tough, how when my uncle was kicking the ball it was so powerful that the goalkeeper was scared to defend - those are just fun stories, you dont go and tell those stories to guys playing professional football - you'll just make idiots of yourselves.

Virtually every awkward local karate school Ive maganed to visit has whole set of stories like that.

Bottom line is - Xu Xiaodong incident proves one thing - from now on one shouldnt trust any story, exhibition, or a competition set out in Mainland China.
Last edited by bartekb on Sat May 27, 2017 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby taiwandeutscher on Sat May 27, 2017 2:13 am

bartekb wrote:
C.J.W. wrote:Two of the best CMA fighters I've ever met in Taiwan were those who had honed and tested their skills in underground (and often illegal) venues. One of them was a Hakka-boxing expert who worked and lived in the local red light district as a bouncer. Another guy was an enforcer/bodyguard in a gang. Since guns were illegal and rare during their time, both of them relied heavily on their empty-hand and weapon fighting skills for survival on a daily basis. I was also told by others that they had killed people in street fights and challenge matches.


This is right here the problem.
You've goy GM Chang, a man that actually travelled, risked and openly competed to prove his art.
Then youve got some third hand stories, fairy tales, secret meetings and JCVD Bloodsport stuff.
You will always have people not willing to exchange their fantasy for reality - as reality requires effort. Then every time someone repeats the story it gets friction, sooner or later gets published on some webpage or a niche magazine and so it goes.

My dad and uncles used to play local football team, Ive heard many stories how they played barefeet and kicked metal tin as they were poor and super tough, how when my uncle was kicking the ball it was so powerful that the goalkeeper was scared to defend - those are just fun stories, you dont go and tell those stories to guys playing professional football - you'll just make idiots of yourselves.

Virtually every awkward local karate school Ive maganed to visit has whole set of stories like that.

Bottom line is - Xu Xiaodong incident proves one thing - from now on one shouldnt trust any story, exhibition, or a competition set out in Mainland China.


Have you ever been to Taiwan/Asia?
Do you know the mob here?
I've met 2 great fighters, one southern Taizu, mostly as a body guard, with belt against cold weapons. The mafia boss presented him with a smuggled Bengal tiger cub and a women. I was there.
The other one is Gongbao Tian lineage, also at home in that social area.
Both had fought constantly, into their 40s, even served time.
And now? They teach a few students, silently, and that is fact, not fairy tales.
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby wayne hansen on Sat May 27, 2017 2:31 am

When I was in Taiwan to fight in the TST tournament in 75
Master Hsu took us out to the airport to meet a bak mei school coming in from the states to fight in a full contact tournament in the south
They were all big guy mostly African American
A week later we put them on a plane to go home,they looked like they had been in a car crash.
All had been knocked out the longest one lasting 38 seconds
The Taiwanese didn't tell me that the Americans did
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