the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

trying to post a thread on topic.

when standing in santishi what is the feeling you (should) get/have? is it aggressive/focused/forward (vs. relaxed/calm/etc)?

In santishi practise there is a lot of mind work to be done(see Yiquan). Practise santishi like this will give you a calm, relaxed, focused aggressiveness. Which later further develops through the five element and twelve animals practise...then eventually in partner/sparring exercises

I'm no XY expert, but I do enjoy Santishi practice. I don't know what others do, but if you coordinate both the external and internal harmonies, I can't really see how you can be anything but calm and focused. If you are aggressive, focus too intense, or force intent, it will affect breath and relaxation negatively. I try to just have an empty state of mind. It doesn't have any Buddhist or religious implications, but you do control your breath and relaxation better and in a deeper manner that way (IME at least).

Agree with Bao, Santi should be relaxed, focused and calm but alert. If you think you have to have some kind of aggressive mindset, personally I think it will be too easy to tense up / become stiff. Not saying there is no place for aggression in xingyi, just that Santi is for practicing other things.

Ok interesting, thanks. I wonder if anyone with a lot of xingyiquan experience has or will reply (it's ok if not or if so). I have none but I also enjoy this standing. From my personal experience, the feeling is almost immediately different than standing in "Tree hugging" neutral stance. Both are calm/relaxed, but in santishi - looking through the Tiger's mouth of the front hand - I almost cannot help but instantly feel a little more focused and forward. A little more yang vs. a yin receiving sort of posture and feeling.

nicklinjm wrote:Agree with Bao, Santi should be relaxed, focused and calm but alert. If you think you have to have some kind of aggressive mindset, personally I think it will be too easy to tense up / become stiff. Not saying there is no place for aggression in xingyi, just that Santi is for practicing other things.

The aggressive mindset is one of the (main)resultat of the santishi practise, it should give the practitioner fire in the eyes, the eye of the tiger, a calm, cool, relaxed aggressiveness that in an instant can be explosive aggressiveness. This has nothing to do with tensed up/forcera breathing, or tensing up the body, if this happens then one have not correctly practiced for example the santishi. As i think you all know Xing/Xinyiquan is a very direct martial art, and practiced right quickly develops a martial mind set.

Trick wrote:

nicklinjm wrote:Agree with Bao, Santi should be relaxed, focused and calm but alert. If you think you have to have some kind of aggressive mindset, personally I think it will be too easy to tense up / become stiff. Not saying there is no place for aggression in xingyi, just that Santi is for practicing other things.

The aggressive mindset is one of the (main)resultat of the santishi practise, it should give the practitioner fire in the eyes, the eye of the tiger, a calm, cool, relaxed aggressiveness that in an instant can be explosive aggressiveness. This has nothing to do with tensed up/forcera breathing, or tensing up the body, if this happens then one have not correctly practiced for example the santishi. As i think you all know Xing/Xinyiquan is a very direct martial art, and practiced right quickly develops a martial mind set.

The aggressiveness i talk about is the result of the santishi practise, the practise in it self has nothing to do with standing and try force one self to feel aggressive, that would be silly, very silly..

Trick wrote:

Trick wrote:

nicklinjm wrote:Agree with Bao, Santi should be relaxed, focused and calm but alert. If you think you have to have some kind of aggressive mindset, personally I think it will be too easy to tense up / become stiff. Not saying there is no place for aggression in xingyi, just that Santi is for practicing other things.

The aggressive mindset is one of the (main)resultat of the santishi practise, it should give the practitioner fire in the eyes, the eye of the tiger, a calm, cool, relaxed aggressiveness that in an instant can be explosive aggressiveness. This has nothing to do with tensed up/forcera breathing, or tensing up the body, if this happens then one have not correctly practiced for example the santishi. As i think you all know Xing/Xinyiquan is a very direct martial art, and practiced right quickly develops a martial mind set.

The aggressiveness i talk about is the result of the santishi practise, the practise in it self has nothing to do with standing and try force one self to feel aggressive, that would be silly, very silly..

The practise in it self requires quite some mind work, as for example mentioned above ' look forward listen backward', but not quite mere looking with ones eyes, but more as looking /listening in specific ways with different parts of ones body at the same time.

I was always taught to have relaxed intent forward, but also feeling splitting (relaxed intent forward and backward) and 6 direction force, among some other things. The forward intent is not aggressive per se, but more calmly determined.

Thanks a lot. Interesting about the backward and 6 directions. I never felt/feel tense, but definitely forward looking with forward intent, like a cat with somewhat forward intent (but calm) or like you are about to launch forward in race or off a swimming pool launch pad or something like that with very forward intent but not tense. It's this way energetically and not just mentally/psychologically/emotionally/musculoskeletally/nervous system-wise. I don't think "almost movement" does it justice. It kind of gives a feeling of "ohh I 'get' the feeling of xingyiquan." Even if you relax the same as in hugging tree, it still feels different instantaneously to me. It's remarkable and makes me more fascinated by zhan zhuang and probably most by Guo Yunshen and Wang Xiangzhai.

There are differences in feelings between hunyuan and santi, but mastering the passive two legged stance in hunyuan and transfer to a one legged stance would be useful. As most Xingyi practitioners started of with the santi with most of the weight of the body seated on one leg. The weighed leg has to be passive or relaxed to transfer the weight of the body down to the sole and to generate a very powerful thrust forward form relaxed to fully stretched. I think practitioners with a feeling pushing forward might need to check whether they are pushing forward with the rear weighed leg to resist the body weight. To test the santi is to push and pull the practitioner to check the the weight of his or her body is sank all the way to the sole. It is important to learn to do the passive stance first, which most Xingyi teachers should told beginners how to do it when they started their lessons. In the old days or even now some teachers just made you stand until you realized it. Push against your own weight and try to relax does not make sense.

Hmm yeah thanks those are interesting comments. The forward feeling I am feeling is more in yi and qi, but I'll try paying attention to see if I'm doing anything like that.

The intention (yi 意）of the santi should be activate all the joints to perform a chopping action.

The energy (qi 气）should flow from the lightly compressed lung along the lung meridian, from LU 1 Zhong Fu to LU 11 Shao Shang.

As an aside, I did some damage to my shoulders by doing long standing periods with my shoulders forward in the sockets. The combination of splitting action + intent forward causes a strong impulse, ime, to pull the shoulders forward out of there sockets. Keeping the intention "back" as well as forward helps keep the shoulders set in their sockets. This is splitting, anyhow.

Thanks I will try a more backward as well as chopping feel.

I can't detect any meridians so that will go on the back burner .