Coordinate your hand with your foot.

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Coordinate your hand with your foot.

Postby johnwang on Fri May 19, 2017 12:19 pm

Yesterday when I trained my "double inner hooks" drill, I was thinking about the "6 harmony" issue.

- Right hook punch with right foot step in.
- Left arm wrap with left foot step in.
- Right hand push with right leg inner hook.
- Left hand push with left leg inner hook.

My hand and foot coordination was perfect. This just made me think. Should you always move your hand and foot at the same time?

Do you sometime

- move your foot without moving your hand, or
- move your hand without moving your foot?

In many TCMA systems such as WC, you move your hand while you are standing still and not moving. Will this kind of training cause you "6 harmony" issue later on? How important is "6 harmony" in your training?

Your thought?
Last edited by johnwang on Fri May 19, 2017 12:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: Coordinate your hand with your foot.

Postby Bao on Fri May 19, 2017 1:29 pm

I like this topic. Good foot and hand coordination seem to be a great source of power.

Xingyi hand-foot coordination: foot and hand stops at the same time
Baji stomping: hand timed together with stomping
Tai Chi following step: The foot helps the body to keep momentum for whole body power


Should a dynamic stance work be in the same category or a different one?
Changquan, Hunggar and similar: The hand is coordinated with stance changes. Begin from mabu, when striking you change into bow stance etc.
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Re: Coordinate your hand with your foot.

Postby Subitai on Fri May 19, 2017 2:01 pm

John, I had learned 6 harmony back from my sifu a few different ways:

In this instance I suppose you're referring to 3 joints in the arm; Shoulder, elbow, wrist = move , coordinate with 3 in the same side leg i.e. hip, knee, ankle. That is one method for this.

You asked about moving your hand whilst standing still... No that wouldn't cause any problems at all. Good Kung Fu is good Kung fu. Only a newbie would have problems being able to blend it all. A person moves as is necessary.

In a style like WC or any style that uses a quick "Pak Sao" or slap hand maneuver. You absolutely don't need to coordinate with the feet every time. Sometimes, you just NEED Speed! Other times, it's just a subtle move to get a sticky point with your opponent or to find the range on him. After you have made a quick connection, then you can proceed as normal.

Not everyone likes to bridge and stick with eachother...which is at the very HEART of why allot of Traditional Kung Fu fails vs a more MMA pursuit which usually strikes more WESTERN in nature. I.e. they punch and retract their arm (in order to hit again) very quickly and efficiently.
* You can see when a TMA guy...who is used to dealing with opponents who like to ALSO bridge and stick out there arms >>>>>>> all of the sudden he faces someone who will NOT play his game. This is why you see allot of INEXPERIENCED TMA holding their arms out (reaching out) and not effectively covering themselves vs. a good striker. They are at a loss because they have not learned to deal with it.

Most TMA fail at being able to create a stick point or bridge with a non compliant opponent because of that retraction


You and I both subscribe heavily to being able to enter or set up your opponent because it is the very CRUX of the problem / solution. Which is why some of the 1st HG vids I did on my YT channel where about this very subject.

For example in this video between 20secs to about the 1 min mark:



Sorry that I started on your topic but then I diverted to my same old shtick that I always end up on. :)
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Re: Coordinate your hand with your foot.

Postby GrandUltimate on Fri May 19, 2017 2:21 pm

johnwang wrote:In many TCMA systems such as WC, you move your hand while you are standing still and not moving. Will this kind of training cause you "6 harmony" issue later on? How important is "6 harmony" in your training?

Your thought?


I think most WC guys will, in a worst case scenario, incorporate more of the type of training/moving you describe when they get to the dummy. But even in WC it would be odd not to have that type of "body connection" being trained much earlier on in things like moving pad work or any type of technique training that is incorporated with moving or some sort of leg/foot work
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Re: Coordinate your hand with your foot.

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri May 19, 2017 3:17 pm

I agree that the hand and foot should always move together. Even when standing still, when I strike I sink my body weight and bring it back up suddenly (both within a split second). This creates a bit of distance, as my legs bend, similar to retracting, and is why my strikes can work much closer, with or without footwork. The point is to have your whole body behind it.
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Re: Coordinate your hand with your foot.

Postby yeniseri on Sat May 20, 2017 9:40 am

I have seen more WC fellows to be much more adaptable than most whereby they are able to incorporate external tools/utility and make as part of their conditioning regimen.
One of my old teachers (one of my first taiji instructors) was a WC practitioner (Arthur Chan) and he was as adaptable to other arts because he learned WC.
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Re: Coordinate your hand with your foot.

Postby GrahamB on Sat May 20, 2017 10:50 am

If you're talking about internal connection then "co-ordinate" isn't the same as "move", because it happens inside.
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Re: Coordinate your hand with your foot.

Postby marvin8 on Sat May 20, 2017 11:43 am

johnwang wrote:Right hook punch with right foot step in.
- Left arm wrap with left foot step in.
- Right hand push with right leg inner hook.
- Left hand push with left leg inner hook.

My hand and foot coordination was perfect. This just made me think. Should you always move your hand and foot at the same time?

Depends on the situation. I would not say "always." You can step backwards and still KO someone . . . :)
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Re: Coordinate your hand with your foot.

Postby windwalker on Sat May 20, 2017 6:20 pm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M7M7rLxcYg&t=206s

Different CMA styles have very different stepping and foot hand coordinations depending on style
With styles like mantis, they often can move 3 to 5 hand movements for every step taken before
the foot hits the ground...

Plumflower mantis in Korea

a little bit more live, only practice. Note the hand and step coordination.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA5-Q6wALTg
Last edited by windwalker on Sat May 20, 2017 6:31 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Coordinate your hand with your foot.

Postby everything on Sat May 20, 2017 7:02 pm

marvin8 wrote:
johnwang wrote:Right hook punch with right foot step in.
- Left arm wrap with left foot step in.
- Right hand push with right leg inner hook.
- Left hand push with left leg inner hook.

My hand and foot coordination was perfect. This just made me think. Should you always move your hand and foot at the same time?

Depends on the situation. I would not say "always." You can step backwards and still KO someone . . . :)
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interesting because besides the stepping direction, the elbow and knee are coordinated forward relative to the torso going backward, right?
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Re: Coordinate your hand with your foot.

Postby dspyrido on Wed May 24, 2017 3:35 pm

The 6 combinations is a training guideline that is good to always reinforce in training until it is understood. This is because it teaches far greater power generation than limb oriented strikes. With practise it gets refined to be smaller and smaller so a step back or weight drop aligns with hand and foot.
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Re: Coordinate your hand with your foot.

Postby everything on Wed May 24, 2017 3:43 pm

Can you guys talk a little bit about cross body type motions? For example for a power shot in football/soccer, I need to raise up my opposite side arm and swing it down while my leg kicks (incorporate all the leverage of the torso/abs). The "harmony" seems to be from bringing opposite limbs toward each other. Makes the kick much easier to do.

In an MA context that may not make any sense (need the hand up as a guard or whatever).
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Re: Coordinate your hand with your foot.

Postby C.J.W. on Wed May 24, 2017 10:21 pm

johnwang wrote:
Do you sometime

- move your foot without moving your hand, or
- move your hand without moving your foot?

In many TCMA systems such as WC, you move your hand while you are standing still and not moving. Will this kind of training cause you "6 harmony" issue later on?


This, IMO, is actually one of the key differences between northern and southern CMA systems. Many northern stylists tend to look down on southern styles because they see a lot of isolated arm and hand movements that appear uncoordinated with the lower body.

But this separation of Yin (stillness) and Yang (motion) is just another way of creating power and using the body. That's why in WC the focus is on 肘底力, or sinking elbow power, as opposed to the whole-body power 整勁 that is often discussed in northern styles. It is also what allows practitioners to execute fast hand techniques that are considered the trademark of WC.
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Re: Coordinate your hand with your foot.

Postby johnwang on Wed May 24, 2017 11:21 pm

GrahamB wrote:If you're talking about internal connection then "co-ordinate" isn't the same as "move", because it happens inside.

Your post just too abstract for me. I'm still at the physical level, you have already passed the mental level and reached to the spiritual level.
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: Coordinate your hand with your foot.

Postby johnwang on Wed May 24, 2017 11:27 pm

everything wrote:Can you guys talk a little bit about cross body type motions? For example for a power shot in football/soccer, I need to raise up my opposite side arm and swing it down while my leg kicks (incorporate all the leverage of the torso/abs). The "harmony" seems to be from bringing opposite limbs toward each other. Makes the kick much easier to do.

In an MA context that may not make any sense (need the hand up as a guard or whatever).

Your hand and foot don't have to coordinate on the same side. If can be on the opposite side as well. For example,

- You left back leg move forward and touch behind your right leading leg while you throw a right hay-maker.
- You kick your left leg while punch your right fist.
- ...
I'm still allergy to "push".
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