discovering mma-taiji part 2

[windwalker]

Who says you only practice slow
Plenty of CMC people have fought full contact
In Malaysia they took on all comers
Just because all things are not shown in public does not mean they are not practiced in private

+1

[everything]

probably people have anecdotally felt one but not the other.

What do you think?

[wayne hansen]

Don't quite get your meaning there

[C.J.W.]

Interesting how CMC stylists in Malaysia were so combat oriented. But is it possible that they were the ones who took the art to that direction rather than CMC himself?　

My grandfather and uncle trained taiji under two of CMC's direct disciples back in the late 60s and early 70s in Taipei, and free-fighting was never part of the curriculum.

[windwalker]

Interesting how CMC stylists in Malaysia were so combat oriented. But is it possible that they were the ones who took the art to that direction rather than CMC himself?　

My grandfather and uncle trained taiji under two of CMC's direct disciples back in the late 60s and early 70s in Taipei, and free-fighting was never part of the curriculum.

I trained a little with Ben Lo,
he was very adamant about taiji being a martial art.
I also trained under Proffeser Ken Wen Chi, who also learned directly from CMC, who understood and could teach taiji but did not do it from a marital perspective. He was a direct student but not a formal student.

CMC had many students

When I spoke to Huang Hsinghsian about his experiences training with Grandmaster he said that the old gentleman did not like his students using his name when they started teaching. But why was this I ask myself. Was it because so many of his students mixed in their own ideas with what the Grandmaster had taught them? Was it that none of them had really come up to his standard?

"If you are really researching Grandmaster's art then your appreciation will reflect your own level of skill. Someone who is a taiji primary school student will see primary school standard, secondary school student will see secondary school level, a university student will see university level and so on. The more you learn the deeper the art gets. "

http://www.wuweitaichi.com/articles/Mas ... Ah_Tee.htm

If you are really researching Grandmaster's art then your appreciation will reflect your own level of skill.

Maybe those your uncle trained under were not as skilled as they may have thought they were.
Training under a master level teacher does not automatically confer master level skill sets...

[C.J.W.]

The teachers they trained under were Gan Xiaozhou and Wu Guozhong, both were well-known disciples of CMC here in Taiwan. Never met them in person, so I can't really tell you how they were in terms of skill levels.

But I will say this though: CMC was never known as a fighter, and there were many who questioned his fighting skills. However, due to his close ties with Chiang Kaishek, being Mrs. Chiang's art teacher, no one dared to challenge him or make him lose face.

[windwalker]

But I will say this though: CMC was never known as a fighter, and there were many who questioned his fighting skills. However, due to his close ties with Chiang Kaishek, being Mrs. Chiang's art teacher, no one dared to challenge him or make him lose face.

Why is this important to bring up, does it speak to his skill or lack of.
You say you never met the other teachers in person and yet feel confident to comment on their skill...
as taught to your grandfathers uncle.


As mentioned in the article different people learned different things according to their level and ability.
Did your grandfathers uncle have any skill?

The teacher's I've met or studied with, Ben Lo, and Professor Chi,
both had skill but in different ways.

I think its up to ones self to test and confirm usage and understanding of "their"
work regardless of who the teacher is or was.

[johnwang]

no one dared to challenge him or make him lose face.

That's not true. The Zimen master Xiong Jian-Shun did. One day Xiong was sick. Xiong's friend brought CMC to see Xiong. CMC suggested Xiong should train Taiji for health. That made Xiong mad big time.

[taiwandeutscher]

The teachers they trained under were Gan Xiaozhou and Wu Guozhong, both were well-known disciples of CMC here in Taiwan. Never met them in person, so I can't really tell you how they were in terms of skill levels.

But I will say this though: CMC was never known as a fighter, and there were many who questioned his fighting skills. However, due to his close ties with Chiang Kaishek, being Mrs. Chiang's art teacher, no one dared to challenge him or make him lose face.

Hm, I was told thru different channels, that Xiong Yanghe and Wang Zihe both did show him the ground, no?

[wayne hansen]

Everyone's a victor once the opponents dead

[C.J.W.]

no one dared to challenge him or make him lose face.

That's not true. The Zimen master Xiong Jian-Shun did. One day Xiong was sick. Xiong's friend brought CMC to see Xiong. CMC suggested Xiong should train Taiji for health. That made Xiong mad big time.

Interesting. Did they ever fight?

The point I was trying to make is that if CMC hadn't been so well-connected to the Chiang family, he most likely would've had to face many more challengers and risked losing his face big time.

[C.J.W.]

The teachers they trained under were Gan Xiaozhou and Wu Guozhong, both were well-known disciples of CMC here in Taiwan. Never met them in person, so I can't really tell you how they were in terms of skill levels.

But I will say this though: CMC was never known as a fighter, and there were many who questioned his fighting skills. However, due to his close ties with Chiang Kaishek, being Mrs. Chiang's art teacher, no one dared to challenge him or make him lose face.

Hm, I was told thru different channels, that Xiong Yanghe and Wang Zihe both did show him the ground, no?

Haven't heard those stories before.

I'm not too familiar with Wang, but have been told that Xiong was the real deal.

[C.J.W.]

But I will say this though: CMC was never known as a fighter, and there were many who questioned his fighting skills. However, due to his close ties with Chiang Kaishek, being Mrs. Chiang's art teacher, no one dared to challenge him or make him lose face.

Why is this important to bring up, does it speak to his skill or lack of.
You say you never met the other teachers in person and yet feel confident to comment on their skill...
as taught to your grandfathers uncle.

You lost me there. I said I couldn't comment on their skills because I'd never met them in person.

As for CMC, I'm simply stating what I've heard from numerous old-timers here in Taiwan's martial arts circles. He was a controversial figure for sure.

Love him or hate him? To each his own.

[taiwandeutscher]

Oh yeah, Wang Zihe and ZMQ were friends, more or less, till they got into an argument about real descipleship in the Yang family. Wang put Zheng into the water gully! And Xiong only used one palm to silence Zheng.
In many schools and lineages here in TW ZMQ does not have any good reputation, quite contrary!

[wayne hansen]

CMC may or may not have been a fighter but plenty who followed him were