Belt System for Tai Chi

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Belt System for Tai Chi

Postby Appledog on Sat May 27, 2017 5:20 am

Hello! I am editing this post to point out that users here cannot delete their own posts. I do not understand why users have the ability to edit their posts but not to delete their posts.

Originally I wanted to have a "cool post count" of 108, or something like that (something associated with Tai Chi) but that does not seem possible here.
Last edited by Appledog on Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Belt System for Tai Chi

Postby GrahamB on Sat May 27, 2017 5:25 am

So, what belt level are you awarding yourself?
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Re: Belt System for Tai Chi

Postby Appledog on Sat May 27, 2017 5:39 am

Hello! I am editing this post to point out that users here cannot delete their own posts. I do not understand why users have the ability to edit their posts but not to delete their posts.

Originally I wanted to have a "cool post count" of 108, or something like that (something associated with Tai Chi) but that does not seem possible here.
Last edited by Appledog on Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Belt System for Tai Chi

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat May 27, 2017 6:07 am

This goes against Chinese culture and really wouldn't do your students any good. Why not just have separate beginner/intermediate and advanced classes?
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Re: Belt System for Tai Chi

Postby Appledog on Sat May 27, 2017 6:35 am

Hello! I am editing this post to point out that users here cannot delete their own posts. I do not understand why users have the ability to edit their posts but not to delete their posts.

Originally I wanted to have a "cool post count" of 108, or something like that (something associated with Tai Chi) but that does not seem possible here.
Last edited by Appledog on Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:50 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Belt System for Tai Chi

Postby Bao on Sat May 27, 2017 6:59 am

Why don't you just give belts to those who are willing to pay most? :P
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Re: Belt System for Tai Chi

Postby GrahamB on Sat May 27, 2017 7:17 am

Appledog wrote:
GrahamB wrote:So, what belt level are you awarding yourself?


Depends. What belt level do you think I should have?



Hmmm maybe something tasteful like a black and red one with gold tigers and dragons on it, encrusted with precious jewels?

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Re: Belt System for Tai Chi

Postby RobP3 on Sat May 27, 2017 7:23 am

Appledog wrote:I've been trying to devise a sort of belt system for Tai Chi


Why?
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Re: Belt System for Tai Chi

Postby Steve James on Sat May 27, 2017 7:36 am

First, you have to know exactly what tcc is and what the students need to know and do to get to your understanding. Let's assume that you or anyone has that part covered: i.e., there's a task (doing something) that requires certain elements (for ex, YCF's `10 points).

You need to define what a "beginner" is in terms of going from knowing/doing nothing to knowing/doing something. For example, first a child learns the alphabet and the sounds, then he learns to read, and finally to write. Or, you could describe a crawl, stand, walk, run developmental process. It doesn't really matter; it just needs to be there.

Graham is funning you, but he studies a system with a belt-ranking system. The problem with using one for tcc is that there is very little consensus at the most basic level as to what comprises skill. Some people do things that many would say are beyond any level. Right??

I agree that there's a Chinese snobbery against a belt system. I'd bet it's also a bit anti-Japanese, but belt-systems are clearly not used universally. In a way, they are as much a means of commercialization than they degrees of accomplishment. There are loads of complaints that the number of black belts awarded in karate makes the rank meaningless.

So, it's up to you whether to create the system. Keep in mind, though, that "advanced" might be a difficult category to describe. If the rankings were achieved in part by demonstration, there'd have to be someone of advanced (or higher) standard to measure against.
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Re: Belt System for Tai Chi

Postby Trick on Sat May 27, 2017 7:43 am

gucci, armani, louis vuitton and such belts are popular in China.
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Re: Belt System for Tai Chi

Postby everything on Sat May 27, 2017 8:12 am

Some international standard of advancement could help certain arts.

Judo had a lot of "innovations" probably because Kano was a professional educator. Possibly a key factor was his goal of physical culture and moral education (mutual benefit, etc.) and getting judo into public education and the Olympics. With public school education, more standardization happened. Belts are not arbitrary and competition can speed advancement. He used both Asian philosophy and American and European educational philosophy and approaches, so the art's system really is a "citizen of the world" as well as his gift to the world.

BJJ and all arts that use a belt system for that matter learned from Kano's approach one way or the other. However, saying one will award belt colors is just scratching the surface of the underlying problem. No one even on an IMA board even agrees what taijiquan is, for example. Having random teachers do whatever they want just adds to the chaos and terrible Rorschach test. If people introduced a randori system and public school education of the art, maybe things could go somewhere. Can you imagine if major Olympic sports had no global standard? If fencing teachers everywhere did whatever they want? If Rugby had different rules in every state and province and country? Let alone if people didn't even agree on some fundamental basics and always failed the Rorschach test?

The only analog that exists and is in just as much of a sad, sorry state is US Soccer. It's chaos, people at grassroots level don't understand the sport (the Rorschach test is failed), completely pay-to-play catering only to the affluent who aren't really into it, culturally, etc. But at least they are trying to introduce standardization, and that's been going on for decades. We're talking about something that ALREADY has international standards! Still, the (men's) national team hasn't statistically improve its (probably deserved) ranking for many years.
Last edited by everything on Sat May 27, 2017 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Belt System for Tai Chi

Postby Trick on Sat May 27, 2017 8:29 am

They have in China a kind of rank system 'Duan' i believe it is called, remember my XYQ teacher told me that i if i wanted could do some kind of examination/test at the local Wushu association. I believe one have to do a written test and show a form or two.
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Re: Belt System for Tai Chi

Postby Bao on Sat May 27, 2017 8:31 am

Trick wrote:gucci, armani, louis vuitton and such belts are popular in China.


+1 ;D
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Re: Belt System for Tai Chi

Postby Bao on Sat May 27, 2017 8:41 am

I found it so relieving and loved the relaxed way of teaching and learning in the Tai Chi Chuan groups I've been to. There was no pressure, no competition and everyone was allowed to develop in their own pace and take responsibility for their own progress. I really don't like the way JMA and some modern TCMA schools put their students up against each other and build hierarchies. It might work in some countries, but here in the west, it just become a plattform for teachers to exercise their own egos.
Last edited by Bao on Sat May 27, 2017 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Belt System for Tai Chi

Postby marvin8 on Sat May 27, 2017 9:32 am

Here is Doc-Fai Wong's Tai Chi ranking system. Don't know if this gives any ideas.

From http://www.plumblossom.net/TaiChi/ranking.html

Blue Sash / No Fringe
1. Tai Chi Walking, Cloud Hands
2. Brush Knee, Parting the Horse’s Mane
3. 8 Brocade Exercises

White Fringe
1. 8 Step Form to Partition Horse’s Mane
2. 8 Step Form to Kicks
3. 8 Step Form (Complete)

Yellow Fringe
1. 16 Step Form
2. Single Push Hands
3. Double Push Hands Pattern

Orange Fringe
1. Left and Right Tai Chi Fan
2. 24 Form (Complete)
3. Moving Step Push Hands

Green Fringe
1. Plum Blossom Fan
2. Plum Blossom Sword Form
3. Free Style Push Hands

Blue Fringe
1. Da Lu Push Hands
2. 40 Form
3. 32 Tai Chi Sword Form

Purple Fringe
1. 108 Form to 1st Cross Hands
2. 108 Form to 2nd Cross Hands
3. 108 Form (Complete)

Red Fringe (Black Sash)
1. 48 Form to Punch Downward
2. 48 Form Complete
3. Tai Chi Saber Form

Brown Fringe
Two Person Saber, Tai Chi Long Sword Form
1st Stripe: Wind Chasing Fan, Two Person Form
2nd Stripe: Five Elements Broadsword, Five Elements Flute
3rd Stripe: Yuen-Chou Sword, Taming Dragon Staff
4th Stripe: Plum Blossom Flute Form, Small Plum Blossom Broadsword Form
5th Stripe: Tai Chi Spear, Ying-Yang Double Jian

Black Fringe
Big Frame Fast Form, Plum Blossom Double End Staff
1st Stripe: Sun and Moon Twin Wheels, Yang Fajing Form
2nd Stripe: Dragon and Tiger Double Stick, Plum Blossom Double Jian
3rd Stripe: Hung Dragon and Phoenix Twin Wheels, Small Circle Fast Form 4th Stripe: Nine House Cane-Sword, Plum Blossom Mother and Son Saber
5th Stripe: Golden Dragon Cane-Sword, Ying-Yang Five Elements Palm

*Additional Forms with Grandmaster Doc-Fai Wong
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