wayne hansen wrote:Don't quite get what you mean there Johnson.
Appledog wrote: When I attempt to introduce shenfa such as chan si gong in the form of basic exercises, these exercises have no real function (and actually no real form) yet I am introducing various forms to point out the internal body movement. The student is left, presumably, with the shenfa but without any knowledge of how to apply it in a martial arts situation. In Chansigong exercises, for example, once the student "gets" the desired quality of movement, he or she is expected to use the turning points to release energy at any point along the circle. Therefore, showing the student various martial arts applications in isolation does not help them to learn this shenfa, but, showing them the shenfa alone does not necessarily show them how to execute the movements. [b](edit: remember, as a newbie, said student may not have any idea what any particular 'martial arts move' could be and may not be able to intuit any applications on their own. so shenfa isn't enough).
3. Since Taijiquan is intended to be learned by rote from childhood, martial development in the initial 5 to 10 years is expected to be of little concern to the student.
Overall the problem appears that it is very hard to teach the civil and martial sides of tai chi together, due to the massive amount of knowledge wrapped up in the circling alone (let alone other kinds of movement) and that due to the large amount of information packed into the art that way it is not possible to teach the shenfa if you pick out only the most effective moves from the form.
charles wrote:3. Since Taijiquan is intended to be learned by rote from childhood, martial development in the initial 5 to 10 years is expected to be of little concern to the student.
While it is common that members of a martial family start learning martial arts at an early age, I don't think there is a compelling amount of evidence that proves that Taijiquan was intended to be learned by rote from childhood. There are skilled Taijiquan practitioners who did not learn Taijiquan starting when they were children.
You began training at 8 years old, can you tell us about the nature of your training detailing the progression through your first 12 years?
I was born into a traditional martial arts family. My martial arts teacher was my grandfather Li Yu Lin (disciple of Sun Lu Tang). He was the authority in the family and insisted that all the boys in the family had to practice martial arts regardless of their future career plans. Everyday after dinner, my brothers and I would train at home under grandfather’s supervision. Sometimes we would go to his martial arts school and train at the back of older, adult students.
For the first 4 years, my training mostly focused on Ji Ben Gong (foundation skills) which included kicks, body stretching, splits, handstands and somersaults as well as basic Shaolin training including Shaolin Fist, Shaolin Sabre and Staff etc. My grandfather used to say ‘Children need to get a good foundation in their legs and waist because these skills are difficult to train when you get older.’
When I went to secondary school, my grandfather would ask us to practice Xing Yi Quan which involved daily Zhan Zhuang (pole standing) and Wu Xing Quan (Five Element Fist). This training was repetitive and intensive. We would practice the same movements over and over for more than 20 or 30 repetitions. Grandfather said, ‘The simpler the movement, the more advanced skills can be developed’.
I started formal Taijiquan training before moving to High School.
As a child, Yang liked martial arts and studied Changquan, gaining a certain level of skill.
Steve James wrote:
Well, it's all good. But, whatever one teaches, one should be able to do or should have done.
Bao wrote:
Many well known "Tai Chi masters" seem to have been taught external methods first to build strength and structure and sometimes they started their Tai Chi training rather late, like Li Deyin:
Many well known "Tai Chi masters" seem to have been taught external methods first to build strength and structure and sometimes they started their Tai Chi training rather late, like Li Deyin
windwalker wrote:Many well known "Tai Chi masters" seem to have been taught external methods first to build strength and structure and sometimes they started their Tai Chi training rather late, like Li Deyin
IMO Not really true in the context expressed.
It might be better to say that many had external style training before their path would lead them to find what is called internal.
All Chinese arts are internal by nature, its the culture they sprang from, one can not get away from this central idea with out
negating the culture from which the "styles" arose from.
The question one should ask is one of what the focus of the training is for, whats it develop, how is it used.
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