the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Nothing against DFW, but this is an easy way to monetize a system. I mean, for ex, how much time does it take to learn Tai Chi Spear? After you've learned the form, that is. The fringe can come to represent how much one has learned, but the question is how well it's been learned.

marvin8 wrote:Here is Doc-Fai Wong's Tai Chi ranking system. Don't know if this gives any ideas.

From http://www.plumblossom.net/TaiChi/ranking.html

Blue Sash / No Fringe
1. Tai Chi Walking, Cloud Hands
2. Brush Knee, Parting the Horse’s Mane
3. 8 Brocade Exercises

White Fringe
1. 8 Step Form to Partition Horse’s Mane
2. 8 Step Form to Kicks
3. 8 Step Form (Complete)

Yellow Fringe
1. 16 Step Form
2. Single Push Hands
3. Double Push Hands Pattern

Orange Fringe
1. Left and Right Tai Chi Fan
2. 24 Form (Complete)
3. Moving Step Push Hands

Green Fringe
1. Plum Blossom Fan
2. Plum Blossom Sword Form
3. Free Style Push Hands

Blue Fringe
1. Da Lu Push Hands
2. 40 Form
3. 32 Tai Chi Sword Form

Purple Fringe
1. 108 Form to 1st Cross Hands
2. 108 Form to 2nd Cross Hands
3. 108 Form (Complete)

Red Fringe (Black Sash)
1. 48 Form to Punch Downward
2. 48 Form Complete
3. Tai Chi Saber Form

Brown Fringe
Two Person Saber, Tai Chi Long Sword Form
1st Stripe: Wind Chasing Fan, Two Person Form
2nd Stripe: Five Elements Broadsword, Five Elements Flute
3rd Stripe: Yuen-Chou Sword, Taming Dragon Staff
4th Stripe: Plum Blossom Flute Form, Small Plum Blossom Broadsword Form
5th Stripe: Tai Chi Spear, Ying-Yang Double Jian

Black Fringe
Big Frame Fast Form, Plum Blossom Double End Staff
1st Stripe: Sun and Moon Twin Wheels, Yang Fajing Form
2nd Stripe: Dragon and Tiger Double Stick, Plum Blossom Double Jian
3rd Stripe: Hung Dragon and Phoenix Twin Wheels, Small Circle Fast Form 4th Stripe: Nine House Cane-Sword, Plum Blossom Mother and Son Saber
5th Stripe: Golden Dragon Cane-Sword, Ying-Yang Five Elements Palm

*Additional Forms with Grandmaster Doc-Fai Wong

Seems to go hand in hand w Choy Li Fut where you pay for learning forms, forms, and more forms. The color of sash means how many forms you know and how much money you've spent. It has nothing to do with depth or any further knowledge than forms, forms, forms and forms....

There's a thread on uk Bjj underground right now outing a purple belt coach who has awarded a blue belt to a student in some obscure club up north that probably has 20 people in it tops. People are up in arms about it. The rules are enforced by a community who is making sure that Bjj belts still mean something.

Then you look at rsf and people are making up their own belt system.

Lol

Bao wrote:I found it so relieving and loved the relaxed way of teaching and learning in the Tai Chi Chuan groups I've been to. There was no pressure, no competition and everyone was allowed to develop in their own pace and take responsibility for their own progress. I really don't like the way JMA and some modern TCMA schools put their students up against each other and build hierarchies. It might work in some countries, but here in the west, it just become a plattform for teachers to exercise their own egos.

Yes i too found it very relieving coming from many years of Karate practise with the competition oriented mindset to the pressureless do it(to a big part)in my own pace practice. Especially relieving when i moved to China where i met high level teachers very down to earth and that not 'demanded' respect, which i often found was the case in JMA.

Appledog wrote:I've been trying to devise a sort of belt system for Tai Chi...

When Brendan Lai was still alive, he used the Hawaii University to offer BA, MA, and Phd for TCMA. He didn't even get support from his best friends. He had passed away. Still nobody care about his idea.

One of my friends never taught the finish move of his Taiji form. As long as his students have not learned the finish move, they have to just keep paying him.

There's a bit more to Tai Chi Boxing than the forms of Tai Chi Boxercise, and I don't use belts, but do award certs to inspire progress and a complete knowledge of the system / style.... Even so, I demand objective proof of skill, a certain combat sport achievement must be attained...

http://sanshou.webs.com/coaches.htm

I think you will find hung I Hsiang graded his basic forms not tai chi
Ba bu da ,Ba lien shou etc.
The fact you say tai chi is a couple of long and internals shows you don't have a system
I know a young guy doing hapkido at present,his teacher allows him to do double gratings each time
He pays double fees for each,he is learning a curriculum but is not very skilful
More belts more money
Any teacher should know exactly where each student is just by touch and sight
We issued certificates to people who learnt our entire system but wished we had not
If I did it again they would be yearly with an expiry date
Because when people stop training skill leaks out
We have one student who we asked to leave because him and his students were not keeping up the standard
He is now out there doing fake jumping and embarrassing that certificate he holds
In 30 years we have only issued less than 10

Just look at doc,s black fringe level that says it all

Niall Keane wrote:http://sanshou.webs.com/coaches.htm

love the criteria:)
1 to 20 to 1 Rolls, One Minute Hand Stand - what is 1 to 20 to 1 rolls? you mean free standing handstand maintained for 1 minute or you start off a wall and go into freestanding?

The Duan system in China is a fucking joke.

bartekb wrote:

Niall Keane wrote:http://sanshou.webs.com/coaches.htm

love the criteria:)
1 to 20 to 1 Rolls, One Minute Hand Stand - what is 1 to 20 to 1 rolls? you mean free standing handstand maintained for 1 minute or you start off a wall and go into freestanding?

Rolls are just a conditioning exercise with obvious recovery benefits for martial arts...
the standard is 3 x 2mins with a minimum of 80 rolls in two minutes.
The 1-20-1 is an entry standard where people pair off.. or groups either side of mats.. one group does 1 till tebother does two.. they do 3 the other 4 etc. So it helps pace the drill and "inspire" the reluctant. As I said entry level.
(There's "kicks" and recovery into guard in the rolls and obviously from shoulder diagonally protecting neck ... left right left... etc.

The hand stands are done in fists for 2+ mins some do them free sending ... but it's not really a balance thing.. so flipping up onto a wall is good... the initial fast rotation of force on the wrist "corrects" it's position and obviously it's a good core exercise , good cardiovascular exercise (minus 1G) and like all "standing" thickens the bones involved. To begin with hands are fine and even walking up walls to achieve position.
(Some people have a mental thing about flipping up on to hands?)

I have a video and photos taken in late 50's of Cheng Tin-hung and the lads doing all these... so these tai chi conditioning methods go way back... like its obvious that a martial art must have gung methods... and I just cannot fathom why so many tcc lads suspend logic and believe it's all form practice...

In my possibly romanticized view, taiji's ranking system is called push hands and is interfered with only by the more powerful ranking system of "face."

That is lots better than a system in which ability, belt ranking, and face all figure. Colorful belts make things one-third more complicated.

Hello! I am editing this post to point out that users here cannot delete their own posts. I do not understand why users have the ability to edit their posts but not to delete their posts.

Originally I wanted to have a "cool post count" of 108, or something like that (something associated with Tai Chi) but that does not seem possible here.

n/m

Instead of relying on a belt system, why not concentrate on a skill acquisition level whereby elements of penglujiankao are taught and applied within a specific system.
It will take 3 years at best for the more serious practitioner. How simple is that, or better yet, how difficult?