the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

at first it may look like he is just wildly swinging. what do you think?

Often called, "Touch & Go"

With practice, you learn the distancing and timing for your punch off the touch. A method of managing range while moving forward.

Every punch that you throw at your opponent, his respond will cause him to open another area, you then punch that opening. In preying mantis term, it's called "find the leak". Sometime the leak can be predicted. This is why you train combo such as

- groin kick, face punch.
- hook punch, uppercut.
- ...

BruceP wrote:Often called, "Touch & Go"

With practice, you learn the distancing and timing for your punch off the touch. A method of managing range while moving forward.

+1

Hardly "just swinging" as BP mentioned look at the distancing and timing.
As long as the other guy remained in range he was in trouble...some how he either had to jam it,
slip it, or try to move away.. Which it seems like he was trying but he moved directly back instead of off at an angle.
we would call that stealing step ..

"finding the leak" yep PM uses this a lot...
very interesting things happen when there is no leak to be found.

windwalker wrote:very interesting things happen when there is no leak to be found.

That's exactly what I was working on for the past many years.

No leak -> your opponent can't hit you -> you are safe to enter -> you will have good entering strategy

everything wrote:at first it may look like he is just wildly swinging. what do you think?

It's a Sambo casting punch, that can lead to a throw.

Uploaded on Oct 21, 2009
The Fight Nerd heads to NY Combat Sambo to breakdown and demonstrate how to throw a sambo style "casting punch", which is most notably used by Fedor Emelianeko. Ever noticed how his punches might look "sloppy" or "loopy"? Here is why it looks that way to the untrained eye and how you can add this technique to your arsenal!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JISgLclfX3c

i'm with john on the"leak" he mentioned.

but also like to add that it is important to do your own thing
and not follow what your opponent is doing
for me the turning point was when he decided to punch with
the left upper cut instead of going for a clinch

What I find interesting is how effective circular strikes can be at the hands of a great fighter like Fedor.

In CMA, many systems emphasize the importance of straight-line punching and the necessity to guard the center line. However, in boxing, MMA, and other free-fighting competitions, we see that most knockouts are usually achieved by hooks and other types of curved punches that expose the center line as opposed to straight punches that guard it.

IMO, straight punches may reach the target faster, but the trajectory is also more predictable and easier to dodge or deflect compared to curved punches, which may come from various angles and directions and can often catch the opponent off guard. And although one's center line may be momentarily exposed when throwing a curved punch, due to the inward-sweeping motion of the strike, it is often not an issue because any attack aimed at the exposed center line can still be cleared and countered.

Just a different perspective and food for thought for CMAists who are interested in fighting.

Everything Fedor is doing is about getting around the other guys guard.

The front gate is blocked so circular strikes go around it and he closes the distance, then, as he pulls back to get more room to strike again he pulls down on the hand of the opponent (with his left), opening his head up to further strikes (from his right).

After getting popped in the head a few time the guys hands come back up, and then Fedor goes to the body, dropping him.

It's old school boxing arm trapping.

I think that's all it.

What do you think of his deliberate off-balancing technique? Or do you think that's only a side benefit of his seemingly swing-for-the-fences technique?

In CMA, many systems emphasize the importance of straight-line punching and the necessity to guard the center line. However, in boxing, MMA, and other free-fighting competitions, we see that most knockouts are usually achieved by hooks and other types of curved punches that expose the center line as opposed to straight punches that guard it. In CMA, many systems emphasize the importance of straight-line punching and the necessity to guard the center line. However, in boxing, MMA, and other free-fighting competitions, we see that most knockouts are usually achieved by hooks and other types of curved punches that expose the center line as opposed to straight punches that guard it.

Hop gar style has many different types of circular punching.
Back in the 70s a lot of the long arm type punching was not allowed in back in the day.
In the gym I was at they tried to address this by incorporating boxing hands to conform to the rule sets.
As mentioned what seems to be easy to see and block is often not seen due to angles, range, and positioning.

As JW mentioned, PM has leaking hand and uses a combination of very fast flurries to find or create and exploit
the leak, the flurries are delivered using what are called "beats" 3, 5 ect...
In this sense from a taiji perspective, we refer to this type of strategy as "blind" meaning that once launched its not easy to adjust or change.

Very different approach than taiji depending on how practiced were movements should be real time. If one can remain neutral in real
time its very difficult to find the opening or leak to enter as there is no point that is being protected and no point that is not protected.
The difficulty with this is remaining "neutral" not so easy...

In muay thai, it's called the long hook. It's not just a circular punch, and not like the boxer's hook. But, imo, that's because in arts that move from kicking to grappling range, it offers more opportunities than a simple jab and doesn't leave one as exposed as a straight right cross.

Thing is, it's not about the punch, per se. It's that Fedor connects. Sloppy punches are those that are thrown wide and miss. Hey, in Pride and other venues, there are guys so huge that they don't seem to be able to throw a straight punch. Remember that world's strongest man against Gracie match?

It's a great idea to be able to throw a punch that if it lands will knock the other guy out, but if it doesn't, can turn immediately into a standing grappling hold. What's to complain?

Hmm, und so, what should the other guy do? What did he do wrong?
Btw, I'm not asking who thinks he could beat Fedor I'm asking about the counter to the caster punch. Ok, "don't get hit" is always a good strategy.

Wondering as well. Perhaps that match was really a mis-match but it's a good question. I haven't seen the Henderson Fedor match, but it sounds like Henderson was getting beat but then pulled off an uppercut that gave him a big upset win. So is the answer something like "you're almost definitely gonna take a beating and then you better have some amazing punching yourself"?

The thing about Fedor's round punches is they at least connect and rock the opponent's guard, which flow into either more punches or a takedown. We can see Fedor initially remove Sylvia's left hand, then later pull Sylvia's right hand down. His swinging right becomes a neck grab to uppercut. What strikes me the most is that Fedor forces Sylvia to move and even weight shift that he must be exploiting because those shifts are connected to Sylvia's (in)ability to deliver a certain power punch at that certain moment (would appreciate it if someone can explain more). So another question is: what is a defense against the guard-removal and off-balancing techniques?

GrahamB wrote:Everything Fedor is doing is about getting around the other guys guard.

The front gate is blocked so circular strikes go around it and he closes the distance, then, as he pulls back to get more room to strike again he pulls down on the hand of the opponent (with his left), opening his head up to further strikes (from his right).

After getting popped in the head a few time the guys hands come back up, and then Fedor goes to the body, dropping him.

It's old school boxing arm trapping.

As I mentioned, MMA uses similar strategies to CMA. It makes sense, since MMA includes CMA (e.g., Roy Nelson, Pat Barry, Nick Osipczak, etc.). I often see more CMA strategies in high level MMA, then I do in CMA competitions.

MMA uses the yin/yang principle to create "leaks." Use inside/outside, straight/curve, high/low, push/pull, kick/punch, slow/fast, etc, attacks.

MMA also uses sticking, trapping, hand fighting, simultaneous offense/defense, absorb/hit, swallow/spit, etc.

windwalker wrote:As JW mentioned, PM has leaking hand and uses a combination of very fast flurries to find or
create and exploit
the leak, the flurries are delivered using what are called "beats" 3, 5 ect...
In this sense from a taiji perspective, we refer to this type of strategy as "blind" meaning that
once launched its not easy to adjust or change.

MMA controls timing and rhythm by setting a rhythm then, mixing full beats and half beats creating reactions from the opponent, confusing, then finishing them.

Broken rhythm is used in both hands, feet, and footwork.

windwalker wrote:Very different approach than taiji depending on how practiced were movements should be real time. If one can remain neutral in real
time its very difficult to find the opening or leak to enter as there is no point that is being protected and no point that is not protected.
The difficulty with this is remaining "neutral" not so easy...

Can you explain how the "remaining neutral" approach would make it "very difficult to find the opening or leak to enter as there is no point that is being protected and no point that is not protected" against Fedor?