New Instructional Video - How to Use the Art in Sparring

[GrahamB]

I found your soul brother...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOcl7JVJsh0

[MaartenSFS]

Seriously???

If you're comparing me with that sloppy shitfest you had better put on a pair of glasses. Though some of the techniques look similar, my structure, power and movement are in a different league. WTF. I really hope that you're joking.

[MaartenSFS]

I think I could actually watch a 5 minute video of just motorbiking through interesting alleys and streets. Kind of a movie of more cultural artifacts that will be lost soon. Like when you see footage of Cuba with all the 50s USA cars.

For the technical MA part, I gravitated to the cloud hands part (doing that in taijiquan form) and kind of the up down hands swimming/waving (sorry forgot the name already) part -- we used to do that as kids when kind of "inventing" our own sparring moves. Maybe the original source was the same source but there is no way we would have known.

I like the guard removal theme in recent threads.

You're right. These place will disappear soon. Most already have..

The up and down one works great both for offence and defence.

[Niall Keane]

Listen pal, you really, really need to do a proper sanda fight. Sparring this way is compounding your delusion. you need to see what happens when the lad you face wants to knock you out, and doesn't recoil with slaps to the face, but tucks forward, dodges and weaves, moves a little , suckers you in and then.... BANG! Or just simply ducks and throws you.. a simple shoot negates about 99% of what you demonstrate - fact!

Overwhelming with million mile an hour impact-less striking will get you nowhere ... and if the situation is serious that nowhere is not somewhere you want to end up. You cannot "listen" (ting jin) because you are going too fast with BIG BIG movements, its a disaster! Impact demands position, it demands you have punched / slapped / struck "through" the opponent, I know by your foot position that you have none. Your opponent is recoiling ? I don't know why? maybe he's allergic to leather?

Man, you can go ahead and waste your whole life on this nonsense, its your life pal, there's practically zero difference between what you demonstrated and the parody GrahamB posted in response. Those guys too, believe in a million punch combination, sorry, I should be clear, not a combination but a chain of the EXACT same movement, thus readable with a rhythm... Oh, Oh!!! I guarantee you those guys too have not fought in a decent level combat sport... enlightenment would have been forthcoming.

Like, you know, after your comments on my students, I thought maybe I'd see some contrived kata-esque wulin shite, but those types have kicks and throws at least, stuff that works but has been made "theatrical"... like seriously, try analyze it as if you needed to defend against your attacks? Where are you glaringly open? Whats the simplest way to negate all that busy-ness? Why don't you see those strikes in combat sports? They would be perfectly legal! This "pecking" shite with reverse partially elbow driven whippy what? what can I call it? ... jesus wept man!!!

Like, you really believe this sh1t works.. I guarantee thats because you actually fear being hit yourself, you are unaccustomed it, so for people like you there's a logic in "overwhelming combinations or chains of strikes", its what YOU dread... personally . But your strategy DEMANDS a fearful reaction from all opponents... but lads who fight or who grow up in violent backgrounds don't give a fcuk...I've sen your approach in a lot of village arts.. because average Joe aint really clued in either to whats real and matters.

Like, I don't know, fuck like!!! I feel now like I've decked a child... You're just not at a level to understand, and that's crystal, YOU NEED to compete properly, just once even, forget about the bums in the parks, and "students", like I said before that sh1t is compounding your problems!. you'll be perfectly safe in a legit sanda match, (the other fantasists on here are correct - there are refs to protect you, and have your cornerman ready with a towel if shit gets messy.) Like on other threads on this board where people advise others, you don't even need to win, you just really need to sort this shit out and I don't think its possible to reason with you on it, your mind is made up, its really something you'll have to discover.

Now alot may think me a complete cnut for saying these things, but the end of the day, anyone here with decent experience sees what I'm saying, and long term I'm doing you a massive favour, while damning myself, because pal!!! you gotta sort out fantasy from reality!!

Say nothing to noone, just for yourself find out in a safe way - combat sports, sanda would be good, stay the fcuk away from national level amateur boxing, or anything in a ring, the ropes and corners will contain you with out escape, and you have no concept of guard. Your arms even at times (in that video where you were NOT under pressure EVER) drop back past your side-centrelines and your hands below your ass... what feckin use are they there? MMA might actually be a good format too, they are more prepared to jump in and stop a mismatch. Although maybe with wrestling involved (same for sanda actually) you'll just get thrown around and refuse to see the flaw in your striking, not getting a chance to?... An amateur level Muay Thai might be best, its primarily striking so you get to focus on what seems the focus of your art, and you'll learn about impact, guard and clinchwork that negates the million mile an hour approach yet still delivers its own devastation...

I mean... really...

And those applauding this kind of thing? Ye guys are endangering this lad, filling his head with nonsense! If you haven't been involved in a reasonable level striking art you should do him a favour and keep quiet...

Martin you were actually better before, and I know I now seem contradictory, its a paradox for sure, but before your issue was the one-shot-wonder one, BUT at least you were "meaning it", picking your shot, moving in with the strike , this departure, however, is just wrong, its now multiples of single type movement to "cast a net and hope to catch something approach".. and there's no real purposeful intent, and that reveals itself in the footwork. Tai Chi has stuff like gyrating arms, but the circular / spiral diversion followed by strike is a singular action and contains precise footwork.. it drags arms and travels around to evade and simultaneously gain range to deliver an impactful strike. Some people drive me crazy and just wave / spin their hands aimlessly, and they have zero coordination between hands and legs, a sort of if it happens great attitude... But "the technique is broken, the intent not broken"
If you charge in with a chain of whatever, you cant be listening, youre already sticking your oar in and to hell with all else... if you cant listen you cant know when to "hua jin" and so you will at best miss the opportunity (being mis-positioned fighting with a formula rather than alive)and at worst you'll miss his opportunity.. it means you cant break your own technique in time and transform... that leads to the technique remaining unbroken and the intent being used against you. anyway, i dont even know if you might understand all that...

[MaartenSFS]

1) This isn't a real sparring video. I'm just demonstrating how some techniques are used in a sparring context with a student that has only learned from me for a month because that's all I have access to! My student is running away because I wasn't holding back that much since we were wearing head guards. The attacks are powerful and he isn't yet equipped to deal with them. Time was also limited, because it was the last day before Ramadan and he can't eat or drink during the day for a month, so we only had at most two or three takes for each and I had to force the techniques to work.

2) There is no kicking or throwing because we are demonstrating striking moves and we are in a fucking park. And my student hasn't learned those.

3) In a real sparring match I don't use all of these one after the other. I wait for openings and use most of them sparingly. I also use a lot of powerful jabs and keep it simple. If you think that what I'm doing is the same as that other video you are as blind as a bat.

4) When I spar with others like the boxers we sometimes spar a lot harder. Yesterday someone challenged me in the park and tried to take my head off. I prevailed. It worked just fine.

5) A simple shoot does not negate what I do. I have other techniques for that situation. I'm not saying that I'm shoot-proof, but no one is.

6) I trained Sanda for a year and a half, full-time, and did MMA for about a half year, BJJ, Judo for a half year. I've sparred with as many styles as I could. I'm not perfect, but what I do works for me. This was a demonstration video. I can't go and ask the boxers to help me make a great sparring video. Sparring with them is already tenuous at best and there isn't anyone else around. I'm going there and doing something totally different to what they are doing and winning. No one likes that.

7) I have some sparring videos on WeChat taken with a shitty phone which I can't get on my computer because my card has a problem. So far you haven't been interested enough to see. Where did I make any claims that I'm the best fighter, etc? I don't claim to be a master, either. This stuff works for me and is 100% TCMA. You want to combine boxing/Sanda with your art. Fine. I never said that what you do doesn't work. Seems to work just fine. You do your thing and I'll do mine.

8) I don't fear being hit or I wouldn't regularly put myself in harm's way. I never use the head guard when sparring with the boxers either. I only use them in certain situations and when teaching beginners that ARE afraid to get hit.

9) When have I been a one-shot wonder? Where the fuck are you getting this shit from? Because I advocate training Fajin? I put Fajin into my jabs and they rock my opponents. That works too. Might make another video on that.

10) You think that these strikes are weak? Without the head guard I could have easily put him in the hospital.

11) If you watch the slow motion segments you will see that there is plenty of Tingjin in there. Not as much as with grappling, but it's there. I am using contact to control my opponent.

12) Why should I give a fuck about whether or not it would work against a pro? I can tell you right now that NOTHING I do could work against a pro, because I'm not a pro. It's worked against everyone that I've faced so far.

13) My footwork could be better. That's an area that I'm working on.

14) You're being a massive cunt. I only pointed out that I didn't see TCMA striking in your student's non-competition video and that he was holding his head down (the latter of which I'm sure you'd agree is not a good idea). Now you go off on a massive tirade, trying to shit on my parade. What is your fucking problem? You really have a huge ego, which is what many people that only care about competition have in common. You may be a great fighter, but you fail in the Wude department.

15) This is traditional Chinese Gongfu. If you don't like it, GTFO.

[Pavel Macek]

I am sorry, but to be honest, this is "Slap-Fu" with gloves on. To hit and to do a damage (like a simple straight punch would do) are two very different things - one round with a mediocre kickboxer who can throw hard jab-cross-hook-low kick and it will crumble down like a house of cards.

Let us care not about what is "traditional", but about "what works".

[Patrick]

Thanks for sharing.

[MaartenSFS]

I am sorry, but to be honest, this is "Slap-Fu" with gloves on. To hit and to do a damage (like a simple straight punch would do) are two very different things - one round with a mediocre kickboxer who can throw hard jab-cross-hook-low kick and it will crumble down like a house of cards.

Let us care not about what is "traditional", but about "what works".

I spend most of my time training and using punches. I'm sure that if you ate one you would also eat your words. The 12 Core Postures are in addition to jabs, cross' and kicks and do not replace them.

We spar full contact. That is more than I can say for 99% of all people that do Gongfu. I spar several times per week. I will continue doing so and improve my fighting. I could care less what you think. My master is a much better fighter than I and this is what he taught me. It works very well. "How well can I use it?" is the question. After my foot recovers I may switch to training at a Sanda school, if they are willing to spar with me.

[Patrick]

I think you do not have to justify so much for why you do something this or that way. The argumentation for CMA for fighting is a lost one anyway.

[MaartenSFS]

You're right, Patrick. Words are futile..

[nicklinjm]

Niall, huge over-reaction on your part. You have valid points but you're going to town on Maarten just because of what he said about your student's video, which is a real dick move. Chill out.

Maarten, I respect you for coming to China and putting in the sweat and tears that are involved in trying to get to the 'real' gongfu, and I know that you have experience with fighting Sanda people, boxers, etc. I liked the Kai Men Ying Ji and Lian Huan Chong Quan from your video, showing some real power in your shots. However, I do worry that some of the flurry-type approaches in the other techniques would not work against someone who (a) is not afraid of getting hit, and (b) has real punching power.

Honestly interested to hear your thoughts.

[MaartenSFS]

Thanks for your reply, Nick. Remember that these are used sparingly and one doesn't have to complete the 'sequence'. The last part of 连环冲拳 is a jab with Fajin, for example. One could also just jab or the last move could be something else. A good example is 交叉劈. I failed to hit him with three and then switched to a Baiquan. I could have also done only one and followed it with a jab. This video was for demonstration purposes only. I have a really strong jab, actually, which I can use backwards or forwards. It is a bit like Piquan. That and Baiquan are what I used the most. The flurries have to be combined with other techniques to be truly effective. For example one down and up and then suddenly switch to left and right. Or just straight. So many choices. I have some videos where I use these kind of combinations on WeChat.

[cloudz]

Hey Maarten, you know RSF can be a tough crowd at times. I'm taking it for what it is. In the past I always used to get on people for critiquing videos for what they are not, and I've always sought to not get into hypocrite territory if I could help it.

Soo.. Nice Job man!

I appreciate what you're doing and what you're showing and the way you are showing it. I much prefer to see demonstrations and technique practice this way than the regular kind of fair in CMA. The scenery, your story, and you are all nice to see too - you seem like a very nice chap. I like some of the techniques and I think they can be made use of, by the right person at the right time in the right circumstance. Some of that or maybe most is great for someone with long ass arms like you, some of it suits you for sure.

When you demo that way, it gives a different impression than when you would time something in an otherwise varied combination according to openings and opportunities.

You probably don't need telling again, but I'm still of similar opinion to Niall and Pavel, you would have to mix things as you progress to physically and technically more challenging training partners and drills, where some of those techniques will lose their effectiveness, and also once you show something, it's no longer a surprise, and often it's the surprise factor with unorthodox techs that gives their edge. I think in particular as evidenced in this clip your reach advantage against this partner helped you to land and you are suited to longer range to medium range striking. I can't offer that much because that's not really my thing I'm more medium to short and my first strategy is counter attacking style these days.. which usually means much of what I do (or want to), other than say kicking isn't much to do with that longer range.

FWIW My biggest style challenge was changing to a counter attacking one. My personal opinion is people probably get too "into" outer appearences & techniques, but it's not that I don't take the consideration, it's simply can't be a priority (for me) at this stage. But it's still nice to see passion for these techniques - I certainly would not write any of them off. I recall getting "done" once or twice by a few straight blasts (chain punching) from wing chun guy I sparred. I've used swing fist and a following strike a fair bit in the past which is very similar to one of the techs showns. Cloud hands I don't think really belongs there. The up to down type striking I've also used in the past a little, but as a short ass.. I like how you switch your lead strike between high and low in one of them and the fluid movement from the shoulder to acheive it. That was nice, alternating high to low lead is a nice offense and this is pretty common in boxing for example.

Anyway keep it up and I do look forward to seeing more of Shanziquan, you seem like the kind of guy who will evolve it and yourself and that's great.

Happy training.

[Bao]

Do your own thing and don't listen too much on others. Regardless what people say it's about you and your own progress. We all travel different roads and that's just the way it should be.

Kudos for putting it up. No need to be sensitive.

[cloudz]

I think you do not have to justify so much for why you do something this or that way. The argumentation for CMA for fighting is a lost one anyway.

The first bit I agree with, the second though I don't understand where you're coming from. It's about perspective, so would you explain yours per chance?