Tai Chi punch

[GrahamB]

I'm interested in what you think.

1. Is there a difference between a good Sanda punch and a good Tai Chi punch? If so, what's your reasoning. And if not, what's your reasoning.

2. If you've been on the receiving end of punches from different styles (say, in competition or sparring) - did they feel different? If so, how?

Thanks,

[KEND]

It is assumed that the TCC punch is delivered with internal power. The expanding of the abdomen accompanies the punch and pene trates the fascia and gives an explosive feeling inside shaking up and disrupting the organs. The sanda punch one would assume [even if using whipping power] is largely focused on the fascia/bone/muscle level, and can cause a violent shock, bruising and breaking of smaller bones and, if strong enough penetrate to the organs.

[johnwang]

We should just compare Taiji punch with Sanda punch. we should also compare

- Taiji kick and Sanda kick,
- Taiji throw and Sanda throw.

[Bao]

Interesting question....
... Honestly, I don't remember that I've ever been hit by any good blow in sparring. If I had been, I think I would remember it even less...

We should just compare Taiji punch with Sanda punch. we should also compare

- Taiji kick and Sanda kick,
- Taiji throw and Sanda throw.

What about comparing Sanda entering strategy with Tai Chi ... Uh ... Uh ... Nah, forget it.

[johnwang]

What about comparing Sanda entering strategy with Tai Chi ... Uh ... Uh ... Nah, forget it.

Agree! If we try to consider Taiji as a fighting art, we should also compare

- Taiji entering strategy with Sanda entering strategy.
- Taiji finishing strategy with Sanda finishing strategy.

After all, no matter how much power that you can generate in your punch, you have to let your fist to meet your opponent's body first.

[Subitai]

I'm interested in what you think.

1. Is there a difference between a good Sanda punch and a good Tai Chi punch? If so, what's your reasoning. And if not, what's your reasoning.

2. If you've been on the receiving end of punches from different styles (say, in competition or sparring) - did they feel different? If so, how?

Thanks,

I got involved in a Taiji Punch thread a few years back on a "LinkedIn" discussion. It didn't end well IMO.

It all started with the side topic of either punching with a tight fist or a loose one was preferred. This ended up being one of the main reasons for a divide between those that believed the fist should be Tight on impact or Loose.

My personal observation was more of a compromise.
- If you are punching from a very close range (thus making you more accurate) a somewhat loose fist could be employed. Perhaps the whole "holding a quails Egg" thing spacing.

- If you are punching from further away (i.e. longer range or space to cross), I believe the fist could start as loose = but then progress to tighten just before impact.

----------------------------------------------------
Barehanded (no gloves) if a person is throwing bombs from longer range, with a loose fist and the opponent is putting up blocks. They are looking to break their hand on a block or sprain a finger & thumb. Again, empty handed (loose) there is a good chance for that to happen. I've seen it happen too many times.

Of course, the Tai Chi almightyists would have you believe in phantom- mysterious -LOOSE FIST-chi Organ exploding-internal punches. WITH A LOOSE FIST all the time and from all ranges.

[wayne hansen]

The question says more than any answer ever could

[BruceP]

Neutrality Principle and Mind/Intent

Is it a punch? Maybe. Maybe it's reach & grab, like in that Punch Under Elbow thing we talked about a while back.

Kick, or step? Maybe both. Punch, or throw?

Entering strategy - passive forward pressure works pretty good.

Finishing strategy - depends on what's happening and who is supposed to get finished. Is it Drunk Uncle Phteven? Uppity offspring? Stabby McRapeguy? A client with a brain injury or developmental issues? A patient in a psych ward? Most times it's someone familiar to the finisher. Sometimes it's a full on assault by a stranger. And sometimes, it's just a sporting match against an opponent. Sometimes fear is justified and sometimes it's just one's own hang-ups playing on their perceptions.

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

I really like what Bruce has to say (same skipping and a grinding guy?). I think we should have some big get togethers and just mix it up friendly like. I've gotten soft over the last three years, but I'm still fairly strong and wouldn't mind getting bopped up.

[Niall Keane]

The real point is not is there a difference in receiving a punch from a karatika to a TCC lad, the point is are you training a system that can teach you how to punch effectively in an efficient manner?

I can train lads in TCC and in three months have them ready for sanda.. to win!!

They can punch, they can KO their opponents...

Who gives a flying fcuk how the opponent felt about getting koed?

BUT...

if all you got is forms... then... it aint tai chi chuan, and tai chi boxercise will never yield results!

and thats the litmus test... and what this board keeps asking... does your sh1t work?

[wayne hansen]

So what would have taught them in that 3 months

[johnwang]

This still come back to the basic question. If your punch

- can kill, you don't care if it's Taiji punch, or long fist punch.
- can't kill, others don't care if it's Taiji punch, or long fist punch.

[C.J.W.]

Hmm...if we follow the this line of reasoning, does it mean that all pro heavyweight boxers can also be called Taiji masters because they punch hard and can knock people out?

[Bao]

This still come back to the basic question. If your punch
- can kill, you don't care if it's Taiji punch, or long fist punch.
- can't kill, others don't care if it's Taiji punch, or long fist punch.

The interesting question for sparring and competition, which was the question in the OP is, imho, more like:
"What is the benefits of delivering a Tai Chi punch?"
Or:
"What is the benefit of using a Tai Chi shenfa/body method?"

If you don't use a Tai Chi body, IMHO, it's not a tai chi punch. You can teach someone to compete and maybe even to win in three months, but learning a tech chi body or to use tai chi methods based on the tai chi body in an unrehearsed situation takes much longer time than three month. But then again, if you understand it and know how to use it, what is the benefit?

[RobP3]

You know, thinking back, I can't ever remember being punched by a Tai Chi master / teacher. Pushed lots of times, but I can't recall, in all that time, actually being hit. Probably the closest was Erle M and his pad work. So I'm not sure what a "Tai Chi punch" feels like