the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

RobP3 wrote:

Bao wrote:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iAdpGkFRzQo

RobP3 wrote:I know, all those people from the Chen Family and the Yang Family and the Sun and George Xu and Ji Jian Cheng and Li Deyin and etc etc, If only I had found that secret, hidden Taiji master that only a couple of people here know of

Here William Chen demonstrate tai chi punching:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iAdpGkFRzQo

He is no secret Daoist master. Instead, he travels around and what he does in seminars is that he teach different ways of using Tai Chi mechanics in different practical ways, how to use and practice them. There are a whole bunch maybe lesser known people who does the same.

I know people who practiced with wudang "masters". They speak pretty, moves pretty. But as soon you touch hands with them, they turn stiff as dry wood.

Do you think those are effective punches? I never met wudang "masters". Do you mean the Wudang Taiji people? I met Dan Docherty a couple of times but didn't train with him

Bao wrote:Doesn't look like much? Hard to believe there is something to it because it doesn't look strong?
It's not about believing, it's about what I know. One of William Chen's students has the strongest punch I've ever felt. It hurts very good even through a sturdy kicking protection and just like this it looks like nothing. I use and teach the same methods and similar as well.

Appledog wrote:

Niall Keane wrote:When people expect a punch to be the province of a signal martial art and so arrogantly believe that none of the other 6 billion human monkeys on the planet know how to generate powerful and efficient striking, when they carry notions of "taichi bodies" as opposed to human bodies, and had that their voodoo has magical ways of movement that the sports scietists with all the twentyfirst century scanning equipment, computer programmes and scientific method have missed ... i automatically recall those who believe reptiles disguised as humans live among us....

Is this your confession? You sound like someone who can't feel their chi...

Niall Keane wrote:This all comes down to incomplete systems again... health orientated tai chi boxercise V Tai chi boxing.

There are plenty of training drills for punching...
rolling thunder requires 20 mins a day win weights in hands and a minimum of 180 punches a minute... followers by same on pads for 3 x 3 min rounds (times btw just like in nei gung posture holding approximate chanting of classics... not commonly practiced anymore)

Gyrating arms, five element fist, flying flower Palm, tai chi sanshou methods also explicitly train punching. Tui shou method jow lu (not dalu) eplicitly trains fluid combos based on opponents moves and opening .

As for twisting ... Rollin thunder always twists.. two ways from the start much like the form moves punch down and punch the groin and also had at the end which coorelates with modern sports science about A - tearing the opponent and also B the twist at the end causes the body in entirety to snap together and hit him with full maximum force.


But... people will no doubt persist in the belief that a short form and long form and less than half a dozen compliant tuishou drills make up the entire system. Such health orientated exercises are good for the old and infirm the techniques stripped from the tuishou (all tuishou drills have associated techniques to be trained with them, so progres goes from beginner win no techniques learnin the shape of the drill to techniques added and finally resistance added... as is the norm for functional martial art globally!)

The fact is that tai chi chuan has and continues to produce fighters - proven since Lu Chan's time in combat sports. What are leitai challenge matches but combat sport? What are combat sports but The traditional method for martial arts to test and develop safely?

The system obviously contains enough training drills to produce top level fighters. It's kind of pathetic when people blame the educational system as a whole instead of a bad teacher... of course , perhaps the system is at fault for failing to self correct? one could rightly argue who polices the police? The major families set themselves up as guardians, and almost without exception they corrupted and watered down their styles. They rejected evolution of a fighting style in favour of what appealed to the lowest common denomiator of the "for health" market.

Well capitalists will tell you that their great god - the market corrects itself.

And now we have China itself waking up and questioning the bullshit...

When people expect a punch to be the province of a signal martial art and so arrogantly believe that none of the other 6 billion human monkeys on the planet know how to generate powerful and efficient striking, when they carry notions of "taichi bodies" as opposed to human bodies, and that their voodoo has magical ways of movement that the sports scietists with all the twentyfirst century scanning equipment, computer programmes and scientific method have missed ... i automatically recall those who believe reptiles disguised as humans live among us....

is there focus on nei gung and flow of efficient power? Of course, but a punch is a fairly simple thing, and recovery is more about the shape entering and leaving and what is being considered and not on how it feels to be hit nor any type of special power. and someone somewhere in some style has the exact same trick ... yes there are tales of 5 step exploding heart technique and they belong in th movies as entertainment. As if some pyjamas wearing old man in a park has a more devastating punch than Mike Tyson?

What's unique about tai chi is it's training sylabus and regime...
if someone has done the work and the drills then their punch is a tai chi punch ... it cannot be otherwise.. it can be a poor or excellent example that is all.
If someone has only forms and then invents their own bag drills to isolate and train a punch from that form ... then this is personal interpretation , their own style entirely ... merely "based upon" tai chi chuan.

If a "famous master" is also a tcm "doctor" and decides to use acupoints to describe all, then this again is personal interpretation, an evolutionary offshoot, not core curriculum. If people like to use a model to help students "feel" the correct way these lies to children do not become real and so all talk of dantien should be considered such, and not as is often arrogantly proposed superior to western boxing .
the model may be better for some people, but neither dantien not maredians exist not any Jedi chi ... if it cannot be detected then it cannot have an effect, we already know how the body moves.

Rollingbthunder suffers from wing chuns chain punching... Rollin thunder seeks to arch and deflect any counters as it goes in, it differs so from many a boxer's jab and cross... but not from great boxers who also seek minimalism... doing as much s possible in each movement.
But it won't send in a ball of energy that explores seconds later disrupting non existent Jedi chi. If a shake (fajin) I incorporated it won't do any more than a bixers snapping twist...

Down in the park when the snakeoil same man tells you to get ready and demonsrates his zero inch fajin you've been set up... the pleasantness of conversation has already disarmed your preparedness... the zero inch equals zero time and that explosion you feel is the same as boxers feel when "caught bad" by a body shot ...

Thing is park boy probably can't pull it off where it counts!

Patrick wrote:A strike without a whole body push quality is just a normal strike. When executed with speed it feels a bit like a car crash (*exaggeration for a better mental image*). Disadvantage although is less reach and your whole body mass is committed.

amor wrote:

Patrick wrote:A strike without a whole body push quality is just a normal strike. When executed with speed it feels a bit like a car crash (*exaggeration for a better mental image*). Disadvantage although is less reach and your whole body mass is committed.

Have to agree with you one disadvantage about the 'taichi punch' is that you do punch with 'whole body' so it means you need to be well connected and your only as strong as the weakest link. Also reach does get a little less and it sort of becomes the norm to get in close. But these initial disadvantage probably are only for beginners I would imagine.

Subitai wrote:I'm not sure what Grandmaster William C. C. Chen is saying in this Vid below...whatever it is, please someone explain it to me because i'm not in favor of it. But out of all this discussion of fancy punching am I the only one to bring up either the hand is tight on impact or loose?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMIP_VRelEc]

robert wrote:

Published on Jul 21, 2015
Chen Tai Chi competition. Wang Zhanjun is the son of Wang Xi'an . Wang Xi'an is one of four greatest grandmasters of Chen Tai Chi. The four grandmasters are Chen Xiaowang, Wang Xi'an, Chen Zhenglei, Zhu tiancai. They learnt Tai Chi together , the same teacher.

marvin8 wrote:Do you believe this taiji shenfa has been displayed in the push hands competitions, tai chi combat competitions, or sparring, that we have seen?

marvin8 wrote:Which goes back to the OP:

GrahamB wrote:I'm interested in what you think.

1. Is there a difference between a good Sanda punch and a good Tai Chi punch? If so, what's your reasoning. And if not, what's your reasoning.

2. If you've been on the receiving end of punches from different styles (say, in competition or sparring) - did they feel different? If so, how?