IMA and longevity

[Eisenhans]

Popular wisdom has it that Taijiquan "makes you live the longest".
However, I heard from several people that Xing Yi and Bagua are (much) better in this regard and that TJQ practicioners actually die pretty young in comparision.

Is this true? And if - I wonder why it is that way? Too much Fa Jin? Bad Habits? Only people that are ill to begin with do TJQ? The style itself is flawed?

Maybe BTDT, but I'm kinda interested in this without causing shitstorms.

[ppscat]

My speculation: Xing Yi and Bagua have more cardio workout.

All in all, what's the point in living 95 instead of 85 if most of TJQ practitioners don't strive for enlightenment?

[Ron Panunto]

Maybe it's because the taiji players you are referring to had bad genetics, or they lead poor lifestyles. Any set of good genetics and a good lifestyle, including exercise of most kinds will lead to a long productive life. The Chinese and the internal arts have no corner on the market. People in several other countries, including Italy, outlive the Chinese IMA masters by decades, and all they do is drink wine and eat pepperoni.

[johnwang]

Both XingYi and Bagua guys train their move in much faster speed than Taiji guys do. This could build up much stronger lung and heart.

[Eisenhans]

Interesting, keeo stuff coming, guys.

[qiphlow]

IMA can produce good effects for one's health. so can walking, or eating vegetables. i don't think that the practice of IMA is the only factor in longevity.

[Ian]

The good news is, most of us are going to live longer than almost all IMA masters just by virtue of being alive in the 21st Century (and regardless of what style we practice). Woot!

[gretel]

i'd like to know if it's true. that is, i'd like to see the references, studies, design of studies, etc.

gretel

[Interloper]

Have you seen the way some of those old taiji dudes drink and smoke?!

[Ian]

i'd like to know if it's true. that is, i'd like to see the references, studies, design of studies, etc.

gretel

You mean the average life expectancy back then vs. today? Or the comparative average life expectancies of IMA masters?

http://www.efmoody.com/estate/lifeexpectancy.html
"(1999) World Population: The global average for life expectancy had increased from 45 to 63 years from the1950's."

Obviously you'd have to adjust the average life expectancies of those IMA oldies for a whole host of different factors - genetics, economic wealth, occupation, geographic location, standard of living, living habits - to make any meaningful comparison.

Methinks once you made that adjustment, the advantage of one IMA versus the other would be very negligible indeed.

[64Palms]

TaiJi, BaGua, XingYi - or just IMA for short all share the same theoretical concepts, from a "Chinese"perspective. The reason we say "internal" is because it comes from use of the body (that is techniques) and knowledge of the internal mechanisms of the body - self cultivation (NeiGong in particular, with elements of WaiGong). Whether you do the IMA or QiGong or practice Chinese Medicine paying close attention and application to all of its components, then the longevity and health benefits should be some-what the same. The difference may lie in that martial arts, for instance, may lead to injury, hence possibly affecting ones longevity. Obvioulsy the could also be acheived through other methods - the Chinese were not the only ones who wished to be healthy and live a happy long life.

So all in all they should acheive the same result - the reason that statistics would not be readily available is most likely due to the fact that everyone is different. They start martial arts at different ages, have different dispositions, and hereditary / genetic components.

The other reason that Bagua and Xingyi may seem to have better "longevity" than Taiji is that the majority of those that practice Bagua and Xingyi do so because they are martial artists and possibly look to apply all elements of the art. This may be true of some Taiji players however, the majority of people who do practice, in my opinion, do so without proper knowledge of the internal mechanisms of the body and hence their practice is lacking - such people that start because they heard it was good for arthritis, already aged or just want an alternative to Yoga etc. I am yet to come across a BaGua or XingYi practitioner that did it just for health.

Bit of a ramble, but i hope it helps.

[Mike_R]

Could be that the reputation for health actually works against taiji.

'I dont need to go for a run, I do taiji!'

[gretel]

i'd like to know if it's true. that is, i'd like to see the references, studies, design of studies, etc.

gretel

You mean the average life expectancy back then vs. today? Or the comparative average life expectancies of IMA masters?

.

I meant the comparative life expectancies of IMA masters.

[ilove_thistuff]

I would say part of it is that all the twisting of the spine and more of the practice at different speeds helps alot. All that twisting helps to not only keep the spine from compressing but it stimulates the digestions and the lymph system. In addition to more of a cardio type work out. Not to say you cant do this with tai chi ... you sure can it's just that folks in bagua and tai chi tend to do it more often in practice

[river rider]

I suspect arguing about which style produces the most long-lived practitioners is a little like the argument about which style produces the best fighters: it's more about the practitioner than the style. that being said, I think that if you managed to balance out all the variables mentioned so far (like different life expectancies, time periods etc) you might discover, numbers-wise, fewer taiji players getting these longevity benefits just because its been popular longer and has had time to attract a vast number of half-baked players and teachers... if the other IMAs ever reach the same fad status they too will experience the same dilution of results and essence... but like taiji will retain a core of true practitioners and the real art. I doubt that any of these arts has ever had a large number of people reaching advanced levels, so I doubt the validity of statistical comparisons of results between them.