the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

I want to take a look at this gif again:


but specifically I want to ask you about this parry/block/pull move. It looks like Machida's deflecting hand is quite far out, whereas his opponent's punching hand starts way back by his shoulder. So is it important to have that deflecting hand reach out then pull in like that? (vs. say, just slightly push it inward)? Why do you want to reach out and then almost pull the punch into you? Is Machida trying to bait a slight opening there?What other analysis can you provide here, please? Thanks.

Some thoughts:

- Catching at the wrist means it's easy to pull back and jab again or to fold it to a hook or elbow. So catch at the elbow.
- Pulling back along the arm means the striker is extending. It's harder to pull back and change direction and lures his face into the counter. It also is easier to lever an extended arm.
- Extra point is that machida is moving to the right while doing the parry making his body come off line for the punch. So even if his parry missed he would still have been moving to the outside. But at the same time the weight is shifting in the right which supports the counter punch.

The weakness to catching this punch at the elbow is if the punch was not a jab but a driving punch that pushes up. Parrying at the elbow would not be enough and sliding it back might mean the punch is actually pushed into machidas face.

The other thing to add is if the opponent put his head down like some fighter do when closing in (eg tyson or liddel) then machidas counter would be landing at the top of his head. He could also have covered with his right but many fighters like to pull it back to get more range for the punch. This works for boxing due the 12oz gloves needing more momentum to push but it's not as necessary when using 4oz gloves.

Thanks a lot, all of that makes (at least conceptual) sense to me. Didn't realize it's that sophisticated in the many details, but kinda guessed it might be.

Dominic Cruz has this weird style of punching with his head down and almost parallel to the floor - you can see why he does it to avoid a counter punch like the Machida one above though.

it's really interesting. how did he start doing that? also, does it work for him more often than not?

I think people are barely scratching the surface of creativity/out=of-the-box thinking. humans cannot hang off structures with feet or a tail, but clearly we are severely lacking in movement quality compared to other primates. monkeys for example (half-serious here). can we get to even half of this movement quality? watching humans move after looking at things like this makes us seem pretty crappy.

everything wrote:I want to take a look at this gif again:


but specifically I want to ask you about this parry/block/pull move. It looks like Machida's deflecting hand is quite far out, whereas his opponent's punching hand starts way back by his shoulder. So is it important to have that deflecting hand reach out then pull in like that? (vs. say, just slightly push it inward)? Why do you want to reach out and then almost pull the punch into you? Is Machida trying to bait a slight opening there?What other analysis can you provide here, please? Thanks.

My observations. I haven't studied Machida enough, especially for his timing. However, I believe he frequently leaves his lead hand out to bait and distract the opponent.

The lead hand is not deflecting, but rolling back (riding) with a light touch. The lead hand and stance helps load the rear hip. Notice Machida sits down on his punch and rotates his hips into the left cross. Machida creates a cross body power, as johnwang describes:

johnwang wrote:- CMA punch, when you punch out your right fist, you pull back your left fist at the same time. Your right arm and left arm coordinate as one unit.

In rollback, you are letting opponent commit more (leading into emptiness) and using his forward momentum against himself, converging with your attack. In a simple "inward" parry, the opponent may have more chance to stop or change his attack.

IMO, Machida is being consistent with tai chi principles by using peng, lu, an, ji. Machida uses lead hand to bait punch to come in, rolls back & down punch to extend/position opponent (rarely are you able to take a trained fighter completely off balance), then finishes with lead cross. Peng, lu, ji, an can be energy directions. Machida's movements are small, in order to be effective. His transition from defensive to offense are simultaneous.

This is similar to this Wu Style peng, lu, ji. Notice there is small waist movement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txNijKY67wY

everything wrote:it's really interesting. how did he start doing that? also, does it work for him more often than not?

Simultaneous slip and punch has been around for over a hundred years. IMO, Cruz's concepts are good. However, his movements can be smaller and more deceptive as witnessed by his recent loss to Cody Garbrandt, whom just timed Cruz.

Thanks a lot for this analysis.

https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=lY8HajZFD8A

Form = Za Shi Chui
Same move at 8 and 28 seconds into this vid.

I can't watch that one for some reason (get an ad for YouTube Red).

Thanks man

Both

- downward parry, 4-6 stance vertical punch, and
- upward block and grab, bow-arrow stance horizontal punch,

are the most basic long fist training.