Taiji and Wrestling

[johnwang]

What's the difference between Taiji and wrestling? The difference can be less than you may think.

In Taiji PH, sometime you may end with:

- One of your feet is in front of your opponent.
- One of your feet is behind him.
- 1/2 of your body is in front of him.
- 1/2 of your body is behind him.

As showing in the following picture, if your leading hand can guide your opponent's leading arm across his body to jam his back arm, you can pull his

- leading leg with your back hand.
- back leg with both hands.

If at the same time, you use your head and upper body to push your opponent, he will be down. This map to the wrestling "single leg" and "double legs" strategy (get both legs if you can, otherwise get leading leg). In Taiji PH, the wrestling opportunity is always there. Whether you want to use that opportunity to train your wrestling skill will be up to you.

Your thought?

[Trick]

"What's the difference between Taiji(Quan) and wrestling? ".....Many TJQ practitioners like to 'intellectually'theorize about TJ principles. While wrestlers just wrestle, and eventually come to know TJ principles without putting a single thought about such concepts...........probably. But yes otherwise there are many technical similarities.

[wayne hansen]

I agree about them realising tai chi principles
One of the softest men I worked with was George Barns the wrestler
Some of you might know him because he toured the states several times
I remember throwing a punch at him ,he slipped it one arm snaked around my leg and he lifted me above his head
He said now the hard part is to drop you feet first

[MaartenSFS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bamRklL_0r4

Some of the best "Taiji" out there?

[Bao]

Many TJQ practitioners like to 'intellectually'theorize about TJ principles. While wrestlers just wrestle, and eventually come to know TJ principles without putting a single thought about such concepts...........probably.

If tai chi principles come naturally, no one would argue about tai chi push hands competitors were hard and didn't do tai chi. You would also see them in play everywhere in wrestling matches, judo etc. But I at least have seen very, very little of that. If you don't have a method to teach and study different skill sets, sure, you might be able to "get it" anyway. But it would probably take a much longer time and how well you understand what you do and how well you translate your knowledge or experience might not be as consistent as if you focused your training on the same skill sets. I don't care what you call these skills or skill set, if people regard it as "tai chi" or not. I know that there are SC, Judo and Jujutsu schools that are very, very soft, just as Tai Chi. But they do have methods and well developed curriculums to study these principles.

If you add wrestling techniques, fine. That is not a question on use of principles. If you want to apply certain principles to your wrestling techniques would be a more interesting question, IMO.

[middleway]

What's the difference between Taiji(Quan) and wrestling?

Striking and Body method would be immediate ideas. Technically there are alot of similarities in the stand up grappling side IMO.

But the outlook is different.

Wrestling - I try to change my opponent.
Taiji - I try to change myself and the opponent is along for the ride.

The pro's and cons of these two approaches are many and both have the plus' and minus'.

thanks.

[Trick]

Many TJQ practitioners like to 'intellectually'theorize about TJ principles. While wrestlers just wrestle, and eventually come to know TJ principles without putting a single thought about such concepts...........probably.

If tai chi principles come naturally, no one would argue about tai chi push hands competitors were hard and didn't do tai chi. You would also see them in play everywhere in wrestling matches, judo etc. But I at least have seen very, very little of that. If you don't have a method to teach and study different skill sets, sure, you might be able to "get it" anyway. But it would probably take a much longer time and how well you understand what you do and how well you translate your knowledge or experience might not be as consistent as if you focused your training on the same skill sets. I don't care what you call these skills or skill set, if people regard it as "tai chi" or not. I know that there are SC, Judo and Jujutsu schools that are very, very soft, just as Tai Chi. But they do have methods and well developed curriculums to study these principles.

If you add wrestling techniques, fine. That is not a question on use of principles. If you want to apply certain principles to your wrestling techniques would be a more interesting question, IMO.

Yes 'you have to see it to believe it' is a good proof measurment, but in these cases one might(should?) also add - feel it to believe it -

[johnwang]

When you train Taiji "diagonal fly", you may train how to use your shoulder to push your opponent back. Do you ever train how to pick up your opponent's leading leg, or back leg?

[BruceP]

Do you ever train how to pick up your opponent's leading leg, or back leg?

Pick-up-needle and Snake-creeps-down

[BruceP]

What's the difference between Taiji and wrestling?

Neutrality Principle

[wayne hansen]

Could you explain what you mean by that

[yeniseri]

A match made in heaven per the 'shuai" (throwing) element along with entry and ending features!
Add the na (grab)and zhou (elbow/forearm! ) elements elements and you have a formidable art!

[Trick]

When you train Taiji "diagonal fly", you may train how to use your shoulder to push your opponent back. Do you ever train how to pick up your opponent's leading leg, or back leg?

The pick up the opponent's legs is something i often practise with my YTJQ teacher, but then he is also a ShuaiJiao teacher.

[northern_mantis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bamRklL_0r4

Some of the best "Taiji" out there?

I've come to the conclusion that some of the best Tai Chi is to be found outside of the Tai Chi world. This being a good example. That's not to disparage everybody within Tai Chi, just my current path to look elsewhere for inspiration for combat or health.