Fajin Clips

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Fajin Clips

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:46 pm

I was just looking at some videos on Youtube, since I have a better VPN now and can get on whenever I want, almost, when I found this clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNOSVuBtmHo
Needless to say, I was not impressed. I then searched for Fajin and found this clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v--3GUWcsoM
Despite the silly name, the second clip is much better, especially towards the end, and shows pretty much the same thing as what I do.

90% of the Fajin videos out there are shite. Here's another one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2Qvo_BUmNU

The problems with the first and the third are different. In the first the guy obviously has no power whatsoever. In the third they are trying to make it mystical. In the second video there is nothing mystical about it. It does not defy physics. It doesn't require a massive wind up like in the first video.

Here's another bad one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVIT9EGWbdQ
This is a slightly better version of what the person in the first clip is trying to do. Neither have any real power.

And a decent one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvCgWjDhHH4
It takes him forever to get to it and he over-complicates things, but not bad at all. For naysayers that say it's slow, I like to do it with my lead hand, which is much faster (jabs are also faster than crosses, right? Crosses also require set-up.).

And now the best for last:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8yCwikaU4s
This is the best Fajin video I've seen out there, with clear, crisp power. I also learned exercises like these to develop my Fajin in different directions and from different angles. It took me about eight months of daily training to achieve results. Other methods include pole shaking, tree shaking, rope shaking, etc., which further refine it. Have a look at the second video on my website for some of these training methods. Learning Fajin is amongst the most basic training methods of internal martial arts, not some secret, deadly technique for only the best masters. Thanks for reading.. :)
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
MaartenSFS
Wuji
 
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: Jiamusi, Heilongjiang, China

Re: Fajin Clips

Postby Appledog on Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:44 pm

Hello! Originally I wanted to have a "cool post count" of 108, or something like that (something associated with Tai Chi) but that does not seem possible here. Therefore I am editing this post to point out that users here cannot delete their own posts. I do not understand why users have the ability to edit their posts but not to delete their posts.
Last edited by Appledog on Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
Appledog
Anjing
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:39 pm

Re: Fajin Clips

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:44 pm

The bounce or shake is a result of the Fajin, not the goal. That is the difference and why some of these bad Fajin videos make me cringe. They also have to be practised on pads, bags, trees, etc. to test for structural integrity and penetration. Otherwise one's Gongfu becomes empty movements, devoid of true power (internal or otherwise).

Do you mean that the greater skill is to Fajin and recover from/transition into another technique? I would say that that is a purpose of the Taiji forms, but more difficult to pull off in real life. Most strikes can be Fajin, but not all are. Usually there will be power strikes, rapid strikes in quick succession, feints etc. Still, with a bit of training one should be able to use Fajin all the time and not sacrifice any speed or leave oneself exposed and generate massive power with deep penetration.

The funny thing is, it looks very powerful when done in the air, but doesn't make a punching bag go flying. So people are very surprised when they get dropped by one strike, gasping for air. It's a different sort of damage.. ;D
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
MaartenSFS
Wuji
 
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: Jiamusi, Heilongjiang, China

Re: Fajin Clips

Postby johnwang on Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:54 pm

Fajin can be as simple as to "unify your body as one unit". All power come from

- bottom and up,
- back and front.

SC, XYLH, ... all use this principle.



Last edited by johnwang on Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm still allergy to "push".
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 8289
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: Fajin Clips

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:59 pm

Yes, absolutely. :)
User avatar
MaartenSFS
Wuji
 
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: Jiamusi, Heilongjiang, China

Re: Fajin Clips

Postby robert on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:12 pm

The second one isn't taiji, he is not using neijin, the guy is mostly using his arm and shoulder. In the first couple pushes he shifts his weight forward and just starts to push his opponent - at this point there is nothing in his back and he just uses his arm and shoulder to push the guy.

I like the third one, it is a good example of neijin. He's using his legs and yao/back. If you watch he takes his opponent's balance as he shifts his weight and then uses his front leg and yao/back to power the push. I don't know why you say he's trying to make it mystical - it's clearly physical.

I agree that the last was the best of the bunch.
Try not to let the words confuse you — they serve no other purpose than to guide you into the inner structures of Taiji. Chen Xin
robert
Anjing
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:32 am

Re: Fajin Clips

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:34 am

I just watched the entire third video. I can't believe how long that went on for. I still stand by my original assessment. He may be able to really Fajin, but in this video his students are obviously helping him.. :-\

As to the second video, it's not the best I've seen, but better than most. I would not say that there is no Neijin. Clearly not as good as the last one, though.
User avatar
MaartenSFS
Wuji
 
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: Jiamusi, Heilongjiang, China

Re: Fajin Clips

Postby Silverone on Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:23 am

Wang Yunkuo in Sydney, Australia in 2016. He began training at age 6 in Changquan and Xingyiquan in Shandong before training in Qixing Tanglangquan and this Tai Yi Taijiquan style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vG2VqiNdZE
The only thing of which I am certain is my ignorance.
Attributed to Socrates, but who knows?
Silverone
Santi
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:59 am

Re: Fajin Clips

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:53 am

Looks similar to a master that I met here in the Northeast that does Wudang Taijiquan. I think that this type of Fajin; Doujin or shaking power, is more practical in a grappling context than in striking. Still, I'd need to see him use it on someone to judge its effectiveness. The Taiji master that I met here is great at Tuishou, the best I've felt (and I truly believe that Tuishou is a valuable training method, especially to improve wrestling), but I highly doubt that his skills would hold up in an actual fight. I tend to come at these things from a striking standpoint, though, as that is my comfort zone. I hope that more TCMA stylists try to pressure test their arts.. :)
User avatar
MaartenSFS
Wuji
 
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: Jiamusi, Heilongjiang, China

Re: Fajin Clips

Postby robert on Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:47 am

MaartenSFS wrote:I just watched the entire third video. I can't believe how long that went on for. I still stand by my original assessment. He may be able to really Fajin, but in this video his students are obviously helping him.. :-\

OK, I didn't know what you meant. Originally I just watched the first 20 or 30 seconds, it gets worse in the middle. Watching from the beginning the second guy, the biggest guy looks like a reasonable uke (training partner). He lets the teacher demonstrate on him, but doesn't add to it. I agree that the third guy is obviously helping or adding to what the teacher is doing.

MaartenSFS wrote:As to the second video, it's not the best I've seen, but better than most. I would not say that there is no Neijin. Clearly not as good as the last one, though.

I provided rationale as to why I don't think he's using neijin. If I've overlooked something I'd like to know what it is. I'm learning taiji, I'm very much a student; if you can point out what I'm missing I would appreciate it.
Try not to let the words confuse you — they serve no other purpose than to guide you into the inner structures of Taiji. Chen Xin
robert
Anjing
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:32 am

Re: Fajin Clips

Postby Bao on Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:15 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:The bounce or shake is a result of the Fajin, not the goal.



That's for sure one good way to put it. 8-)

IMO, most of the fajin out there is not fajin. Fajin is based on storing and releasing. Shaking is a result of softness and relaxation, not a result of strength. The more soft and relaxed you are when you use speed, the more there's a need for stabilizing the body. Fajin methods accelerate very fast. It should go from zero to hundred in a matter of fractions of a second. Then it goes from hundred directly to zero again. The more relaxed, the more evident difference there is between stillness and movement. The shake is the body trying to keep up stabilizing itself when it suddenly stops from being in fast movement. Shaking for the sake of shaking might have an aspect of practicing coordination, but seldom develops the kind of deep penetrating power that we seek to develop in IMA.
Last edited by Bao on Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 5826
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: Fajin Clips

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:39 pm

Exactly. If we drive a car at a high speed and then suddenly step on the brake the same thing will happen (to the person inside).
User avatar
MaartenSFS
Wuji
 
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: Jiamusi, Heilongjiang, China

Re: Fajin Clips

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:47 pm

robert wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:I just watched the entire third video. I can't believe how long that went on for. I still stand by my original assessment. He may be able to really Fajin, but in this video his students are obviously helping him.. :-\

OK, I didn't know what you meant. Originally I just watched the first 20 or 30 seconds, it gets worse in the middle. Watching from the beginning the second guy, the biggest guy looks like a reasonable uke (training partner). He lets the teacher demonstrate on him, but doesn't add to it. I agree that the third guy is obviously helping or adding to what the teacher is doing.

MaartenSFS wrote:As to the second video, it's not the best I've seen, but better than most. I would not say that there is no Neijin. Clearly not as good as the last one, though.

I provided rationale as to why I don't think he's using neijin. If I've overlooked something I'd like to know what it is. I'm learning taiji, I'm very much a student; if you can point out what I'm missing I would appreciate it.

I watched the second video again. The thing we can't see is his legs and hips. Just because there is no big, obvious movement in his waist and back doesn't mean there is nothing. Also, there is less shaking for forward-thrusting attacks than horizontal attacks, where we use all the power in the waist that we can muster. I can see him integrating his whole body into the movement. This is pretty much exactly how I do it. His Fajin looks good to me. Better than I remember it. ;D
User avatar
MaartenSFS
Wuji
 
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: Jiamusi, Heilongjiang, China

Re: Fajin Clips

Postby dspyrido on Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:54 pm

There are different types of expression of fajin (eg short, long, continuous, changing etc.) but is there a view that taichi's fajin different to xingyi's fajin which is different to bagua's fajin?
User avatar
dspyrido
Wuji
 
Posts: 2026
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:03 am

Re: Fajin Clips

Postby shawnsegler on Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:59 pm

I prefer
You behind the wheel
And me the passenger
User avatar
shawnsegler
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6477
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: The center of things.

Next

Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest