Fajin Clips

[johnwang]

I can never understand why people want to spend so much time in Fajin. Even if you may know nothing about Fajin, if you spend 20 years in front of a heavy bag, you will develop punching power.

I try to throw

- 40 palm strikes,
- 120 arm strikes,
- 200 punches,
- 120 kicks

on heavy bag daily. I just don't like to punch into the thin air.

[Appledog]

Hello! Originally I wanted to have a "cool post count" of 108, or something like that (something associated with Tai Chi) but that does not seem possible here. Therefore I am editing this post to point out that users here cannot delete their own posts. I do not understand why users have the ability to edit their posts but not to delete their posts.

[Subitai]

I can never understand why people want to spend so much time in Fajin. Even if you may know nothing about Fajin, if you spend 20 years in front of a heavy bag, you will develop punching power.

I try to throw

- 40 palm strikes,
- 120 arm strikes,
- 200 punches,
- 120 kicks

on heavy bag daily. I just don't like to punch into the thin air.

Agree so much... In my 20's I trained hard for one year as an experiment. I trained (3) strikes that I could dislodge and completely knock a 200lb heavy bag off of it's 4 chains on to the floor...with a single hit. I spent, months and months on each strike with 1000's of failures. Finally I achieve my goal. Guess what? It didn't mean shit in fighting because I could not land them perfectly on fully resistant sparring partners. * Meaning nobody will stand still and let you land a perfect strike.
All it takes, is for your opponent to partially block/deflect, or to BOB / slip your power...or to Yield just enough that it diminishes some of your power and it will not be 100%. (Not that I couldn't hurt them, it's just wasn't the super devastating effect I was hoping for either) I call those powerful strikes bullets and the set up the gun.

Of course, I'm saying that a Fajin strike is nothing without the set up. (unless your opponent is tied up or you attack from behind)

About those punches for example...you have to know intimately the best way to set them up. When punching there are 3 basic elbow configurations. Punch with elbow down, elbow facing out to the side and elbow up.
Meaning the other side of the coin is where does the bend of your arm present itself?
In general, If your hand originates from high position, it should go down. If your hand begins from low it should go upwards. But fajin from the waist can over ride this rule... the problem again is the set up.

When I train to set up my methods...I always want as many different body types as possible. VS. a tall guy, the short guy, the skinny guy or fat guy, every body type I can find ect ect. Then I train 3 questions:

1) How does this work in the perfect scenario? Meaning everything goes according to plan.
2) What is the MOST common way that everyone reacts to this and what is the most common counter?
3) How do I deal with this?

= The way into danger is the way out...and the way out is also the way back in.

[MaartenSFS]

There are different types of expression of fajin (eg short, long, continuous, changing etc.) but is there a view that taichi's fajin different to xingyi's fajin which is different to bagua's fajin?

From what I've seen it's not style-specific.

[MaartenSFS]

I can never understand why people want to spend so much time in Fajin. Even if you may know nothing about Fajin, if you spend 20 years in front of a heavy bag, you will develop punching power.

I try to throw

- 40 palm strikes,
- 120 arm strikes,
- 200 punches,
- 120 kicks

on heavy bag daily. I just don't like to punch into the thin air.

Fajin MUST be trained on pads/bags/trees etc. A Fajin punch is no different than a normal punch in that it must be trained in the air/on a bag and drilled with partners, then used in sparring.

[MaartenSFS]

Subitai, does a jab require a lot of set-up? Can you just go charging in with a cross or right uppercut?

Fajin can be applied to jabs, crosses, hooks, throws, Qinna, kicks, fuck, pretty much anything, and because they penetrate can do damage even when blocked. When I spar, most of my punches are Fajin and some of my other strikes are too. A lot of them land. The question is not whether Fajin is practical, but whether all of you have seen or learned it properly. Most practitioners that I've met couldn't Fajin themselves out of a wet, paper bag.

[Appledog]

Hello! Originally I wanted to have a "cool post count" of 108, or something like that (something associated with Tai Chi) but that does not seem possible here. Therefore I am editing this post to point out that users here cannot delete their own posts. I do not understand why users have the ability to edit their posts but not to delete their posts.

[Trick]

I can never understand why people want to spend so much time in Fajin. Even if you may know nothing about Fajin, if you spend 20 years in front of a heavy bag, you will develop punching power.

I try to throw

- 40 palm strikes,
- 120 arm strikes,
- 200 punches,
- 120 kicks

on heavy bag daily. I just don't like to punch into the thin air.

I don't practice on heavy bags or striking pads much these day's, but I agree it is valuable practice if to develop punching power. I do understand why some like to spend much time on 'Fajining' in thin air, because to some they look very powerful when doing all that Fajin and they them self feel very powerful until they hit for example a heavy bag. A long time ago I was up for sparring against a TJQ guy who before had showed some powerful and snappy/crisp fajin(in thin air), I thought I was up for some hard time,I went in with a relaxed reverse punch to his body, it just happened to break one of his ribs and the sparring was over. Probably as some TJQ practitioners back then he was not used to free sparring and was caught up in 'showing Fajin is showing power' (which I to some extent also believed up to that point)

[MaartenSFS]

That's what we call empty Fajin, those that are all bark and no bite.. They're more likely to break their wrist than anything else...

[phil b]

This is a theory from 'external' martial arts, which is why they train the use of a guard hand and high-percentage follow-up techniques. In the internal schools of Xingyi, Bagua and Taijiquan, due to the set up required for proper fajing (as explained in the classics) you create a situation whereby, essentially, the opponent stands there and lets you land a perfect strike.

Something tells me you have done little to none Xing Yi! The fact that you peddle the notion of external martial arts suggests you have little exposure to real CMA.

[Appledog]

Hello! Originally I wanted to have a "cool post count" of 108, or something like that (something associated with Tai Chi) but that does not seem possible here. Therefore I am editing this post to point out that users here cannot delete their own posts. I do not understand why users have the ability to edit their posts but not to delete their posts.

[phil b]

Appledog, my experience of Xing Yi Quan, albeit limited has taught me that essentially, creating the situation whereby someone trying to take your head off effectively stands still while you land the perfect strike is nonsense. It's all well and good writing that but quite another making it happen. Fighting is messy. The perfect techniques is a training ideal to strive for, nothing more.

As for external; my position is simple and you don't need to pay a fee. The notion of external vs internal is a marketing ploy. Real kung fu has both inner and outer training and the lines are blurred at best. In my experience, and again I stress it is limited, those who separate into external and internal have their reasons. The real question is why?

[windwalker]

those who separate into external and internal have their reasons. The real question is why?

Because they are different training strategies designed to enhance different aspects.
All CMA due to Chinese culture is internal by nature.
Internal, external is not an issue IME,
they'er just different training, with different end results.

The distinction is one that outlines how this idea concept is developed / used.

What is called internal often used for "marketing" because being called "internal" can limit what is seen and understood
by those trying to sell something to others not understanding the concept.

It works well until it doesn't.

CMA internal branches or external come from the same tree.

I never heard of the team fa-jin used in my previous studies. Even with things like burning palm / iron palm, ect, the ideas of qi, and other aspects were mentioned, used demonstrated, and put to use.

In Japaneses styles ie karate it was thought that the snapping of the gi during punching indicated a good punch.
The fa-jin demos seem to follow suite in some aspects. Both never seem to show how this would be used on a moving reacting opponent
as some have noted the assumptions being made are often not backed up by experience.

[Appledog]

Hello! Originally I wanted to have a "cool post count" of 108, or something like that (something associated with Tai Chi) but that does not seem possible here. Therefore I am editing this post to point out that users here cannot delete their own posts. I do not understand why users have the ability to edit their posts but not to delete their posts.

[Subitai]

Subitai, does a jab require a lot of set-up? Can you just go charging in with a cross or right uppercut?

Fajin can be applied to jabs, crosses, hooks, throws, Qinna, kicks, fuck, pretty much anything, and because they penetrate can do damage even when blocked. When I spar, most of my punches are Fajin and some of my other strikes are too. A lot of them land. The question is not whether Fajin is practical, but whether all of you have seen or learned it properly. Most practitioners that I've met couldn't Fajin themselves out of a wet, paper bag.

No it doesn't...though I don't personally see a Jab - Cross - right uppercut combo (for example) as a normal attack strategy for either Taiji, Xingyi or Bagua. If that's your frame of reference, then we just have different views.

I agree with you that Fajin could be used with most things...we just differ on use.

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Appledog wrote: This is a theory from 'external' martial arts, which is why they train the use of a guard hand and high-percentage follow-up techniques. In the internal schools of Xingyi, Bagua and Taijiquan, due to the set up required for proper fajing (as explained in the classics) you create a situation whereby, essentially, the opponent stands there and lets you land a perfect strike.

( 1st, please know that the only reason I'm on this board is because of my association with the San Ti...i.e. the 3 embodiments: Taiji, XingYi and Bagua. If I was Hung Gar only...I wouldn't bother with this board. )

I never said which types of 3 strikes I used to dislodge a 200lb heavy bag. In fact one of them was "Gi or jee" = i.e. forward / press from Yang Taiji done with fajing. Executed from extremely close to the bag.

You make me laugh dude... the crux of my post was about "Set up" and yet right after the fact, you are speaking about set up required for proper fajing???