Re-upload of my Master's Yang shi Taijiquan Form..

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Re-upload of my Master's Yang shi Taijiquan Form..

Postby everything on Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:16 pm

really liked it.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: Re-upload of my Master's Yang shi Taijiquan Form..

Postby everything on Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:18 pm

johnwang wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:功夫就是一横一竖。。

TCMA is as simple as:

- fist meets face.
- head meets ground.


very helpful
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/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: Re-upload of my Master's Yang shi Taijiquan Form..

Postby MaartenSFS on Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:14 am

johnwang wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:功夫就是一横一竖。。

TCMA is as simple as:

- fist meets face.
- head meets ground.

Exactly. The further we get from that truth, the less effective our arts become..
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Re: Re-upload of my Master's Yang shi Taijiquan Form..

Postby Bao on Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:28 am

windwalker wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:He doesn't care what it's called, honestly. :P


I ask because it leads to comments like this
By naming it, it will be judged by the standards of "yang's" taiji which will prompt comments.

Bao on Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:46 pm

It's not even something close to Yang Tai Chi. But it's still a nice performance and he seems to be good at whatever he is doing.


I call what I found “no name taiji” rather then name it, feeling by doing so it would tend to confine the freedom to a set of expectations apart from the experience. One does not play taiji, one becomes what others view and feel as taiji.
For the one playing there really is no name, it is.

Your teacher has a unique flavor, and expresses it well.


Again, I think his teacher certainly have skill. I like some parts of the performance quite a lot. There's a good whole body power and whole body movement shown there as well as very good coordination over all. This teacher has dedicated himself to his arts over a very long time. You can see that he moves very naturally and coordinate his movements perfectly natural. There's certainly skill behind it. But calling it Tai ChI? .... :-\

If you want to call something Tai Chi, nameless or not, there should IMHO be something there that could be called Tai Chi. If the body method is something else, then it's something else. A Yang Tai Chi form should is performed with unbroken movement, there is no glitch between movements. The centerline is always kept intact, regardless if there's leaning or if the spine has movement. I could make quite a long list how this teacher breaks basic Tai Chi body movement and Yang especially. If someone has practiced Tai Chi body methods for a long time, there will always be Tai Chi body movement present, even if he or she breaks "rules" or creates an own version of the art. Foundation cannot be faked. This teacher might know external Tai Chi movements, but he has never focused on Tai Chi practice and his heart belongs somewhere else. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with this. A man should have his heart where it wants to be. I respect the skills I see. But mimicking something you don't understand doesn't serve any kind of purpose than exposing your weaknesses and limitations.

Because of respect for certain arts and the practitioners thereof, I would never try to perform such as a Wing Chun or Choylifut form even if I could certainly learn the movements well. There are styles of Bagua and Xingyi I keep away from as well. I could never embrace the spirit of these schools. Even if some skill would show through, the flavour and essence of these arts would completely escape me and it would show in a performance to a degree that I would only be embarrassed of. IMHO, you should understand your limits and act accordingly.
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Re: Re-upload of my Master's Yang shi Taijiquan Form..

Postby Bao on Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:30 am

everything wrote:
johnwang wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:功夫就是一横一竖。。

TCMA is as simple as:

- fist meets face.
- head meets ground.


very helpful

'
Indeed. ;D

But you still need the "A" to spell TCMA. And the A is there for a reason. ;)
Last edited by Bao on Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re-upload of my Master's Yang shi Taijiquan Form..

Postby Strange on Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:38 am

how about punk ass taiji
i like the sound of punk asss taiji
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Re: Re-upload of my Master's Yang shi Taijiquan Form..

Postby Trick on Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:58 am

Bao wrote:
windwalker wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:He doesn't care what it's called, honestly. :P


I ask because it leads to comments like this
By naming it, it will be judged by the standards of "yang's" taiji which will prompt comments.

Bao on Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:46 pm

It's not even something close to Yang Tai Chi. But it's still a nice performance and he seems to be good at whatever he is doing.


I call what I found “no name taiji” rather then name it, feeling by doing so it would tend to confine the freedom to a set of expectations apart from the experience. One does not play taiji, one becomes what others view and feel as taiji.
For the one playing there really is no name, it is.

Your teacher has a unique flavor, and expresses it well.


Again, I think his teacher certainly have skill. I like some parts of the performance quite a lot. There's a good whole body power and whole body movement shown there as well as very good coordination over all. This teacher has dedicated himself to his arts over a very long time. You can see that he moves very naturally and coordinate his movements perfectly natural. There's certainly skill behind it. But calling it Tai ChI? .... :-\

If you want to call something Tai Chi, nameless or not, there should IMHO be something there that could be called Tai Chi. If the body method is something else, then it's something else. A Yang Tai Chi form should is performed with unbroken movement, there is no glitch between movements. The centerline is always kept intact, regardless if there's leaning or if the spine has movement. I could make quite a long list how this teacher breaks basic Tai Chi body movement and Yang especially. If someone has practiced Tai Chi body methods for a long time, there will always be Tai Chi body movement present, even if he or she breaks "rules" or creates an own version of the art. Foundation cannot be faked. This teacher might know external Tai Chi movements, but he has never focused on Tai Chi practice and his heart belongs somewhere else. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with this. A man should have his heart where it wants to be. I respect the skills I see. But mimicking something you don't understand doesn't serve any kind of purpose than exposing your weaknesses and limitations.

Because of respect for certain arts and the practitioners thereof, I would never try to perform such as a Wing Chun or Choylifut form even if I could certainly learn the movements well. There are styles of Bagua and Xingyi I keep away from as well. I could never embrace the spirit of these schools. Even if some skill would show through, the flavour and essence of these arts would completely escape me and it would show in a performance to a degree that I would only be embarrassed of. IMHO, you should understand your limits and act accordingly.

Can not see the video, but when you say it is not YTJQ then I believe that. But calling something Tai Chi/Taiji, why not ?, think i read in another thread here about Taiji Tanglangquan, I have no idea how it looks, i believe it has nothing to do with TJQ but is a respected style of CMA.
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Re: Re-upload of my Master's Yang shi Taijiquan Form..

Postby MaartenSFS on Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:17 am

It's just a hybrid of Taijiquan and Tanglangquan. There is also Bagua Taijiquan and Sun Shi Taijiquan is a hybrid of Taijiquan and Xingyiquan. There are no pure styles! What matters is whether or not the teacher you are studying with can fight and teach you how to do so!
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re-upload of my Master's Yang shi Taijiquan Form..

Postby marvin8 on Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:07 am

Bao wrote:
johnwang wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:功夫就是一横一竖。。

TCMA is as simple as:

- fist meets face.
- head meets ground.

Indeed. ;D

But you still need the "A" to spell TCMA. And the A is there for a reason. ;)

I agree. TCMA is supposed to teach a person how to defend themselves against someone bigger, stronger, etc., using fighting skills. There is no "art" in beating up someone smaller than you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t8xwpW8gJQ

MaartenSFS wrote:It's just a hybrid of Taijiquan and Tanglangquan. There is also Bagua Taijiquan and Sun Shi Taijiquan is a hybrid of Taijiquan and Xingyiquan. There are no pure styles! What matters is whether or not the teacher you are studying with can fight and teach you how to do so!

I agree. What matters is that you effectively learn to use TCMA concepts, principles and/or strategies against a resistant attacker. I have seen "kickboxers" display more martial art than Taiji players, when it comes to a real fight. What can be applied against a fast, moving, resistant opponent may not look the same as in push hands or a form.
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Re: Re-upload of my Master's Yang shi Taijiquan Form..

Postby Trick on Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:14 am

Yes, as the TJQ I focus on these day's 陈式心意混元太极拳(chenshixinyihunyuantaijiquan') but often just called HunyuanTJQ. I had read and heard about this style of TJQ but thought how could that be TJQ that incorporate principles from Xinyi/Xingyiquan and Tongbeiquan, but then I crossed hands with my to be teacher and I was convinced that it was/is TJQ.
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Re: Re-upload of my Master's Yang shi Taijiquan Form..

Postby Bao on Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:15 am

Trick wrote:Can not see the video, but when you say it is not YTJQ then I believe that. But calling something Tai Chi/Taiji, why not ?, think i read in another thread here about Taiji Tanglangquan, I have no idea how it looks, i believe it has nothing to do with TJQ but is a respected style of CMA.


Taiji Tanglangquan is just Praying mantis Style. This says modified Yang 24.
....Not that I think that many 24 practitioners do something that is actually tai chi.... :P

MaartenSFS wrote:. There are no pure styles! What matters is whether or not the teacher you are studying with can fight and teach you how to do so!


The question is if there is anything there at all that could be called tai chi. A style is a style, mixed or not, as long as you preserve the integrity of the foundation. It's like you can write an "A" in many different ways. Just as long as you can read that it's an "A", then it's an "A". No one who understood language would say that a "Q" or an "E" is an "A".

.... Examples in English might not be the best way to explain it though, when "fish" can be spelled "Photi". :P

What matters if you only want to learn to fight is fighting skill. Why go to China if you just want to fight? Why not stay just in Europe practicing boxing or kick-boxing? If you are interested in learning Chinese traditional methods to fight with, you need to build a traditional foundation. Otherwise you are just doing kickboxing. :-\
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Re: Re-upload of my Master's Yang shi Taijiquan Form..

Postby MaartenSFS on Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:24 am

So if I'm not doing TJQ your way I'm doing kickboxing???

If you can't see the Taijiquan in there then that is your problem. If he didn't Fajin then it would be seamless. Taijiquan has always had Fajin, though, and one should be able to do so with any technique.

He told me that the Yang 24 form was created by martial artists and that the applications are sound. He just has his own expression.

Anyways, neither he nor I could care less if anyone says it's not TJQ..
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re-upload of my Master's Yang shi Taijiquan Form..

Postby Trick on Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:10 am

I always thought the 'yang'24form is quite sound and well composed, I never understood the negativity against that excercise. And wasn't the well respected TJQ/TCMA masters such as Fu Zhongwen and Chu Guiting among the creators of this exercise, that would bode for a well thought thru composition.
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Re: Re-upload of my Master's Yang shi Taijiquan Form..

Postby Steve James on Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:31 am

The "24" was created by a committee so that there could be a simple, standard form for health that could be taught consistently to large numbers of people. It is based on what was considered the essential parts of the Yang form and choreographs them. But, it's not Yang family style or really Yang style. People complain about it because it is (intentionally) bland, and often taught without any relation to martial practice. However, the people who do it (or any of the other competition styles) in competition can be as skillful and athletic as any other martial artists.

I think it's the competition among the various tcc parties that made the 24 inevitable. If none of the other styles like it, it's doing its job. But, since most styles have their own competition (wushu) routine or routines now, it doesn't make much difference.

Afa the original video, the issue is not so much whether it is tcc or not, or whether it is pure tcc. There's no agreement among tcc practitioners except that 99% of tcc practitioners aren't doing tcc, anyway. The only issue, imo, is what the teacher claims to be passing on to his or her students. I don't think it's important to label one's art, either. I think, however, that the labels one does use should be meaningful.

It's really hard to find a video on which tcc/ima people agree.
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Re: Re-upload of my Master's Yang shi Taijiquan Form..

Postby chenyaolong on Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:04 am

MaartenSFS wrote:It's just a hybrid of Taijiquan and Tanglangquan. There is also Bagua Taijiquan and Sun Shi Taijiquan is a hybrid of Taijiquan and Xingyiquan. There are no pure styles! What matters is whether or not the teacher you are studying with can fight and teach you how to do so!


sorry to sidetrack from the thread... but Taiji Tanglangquan is not a hybrid. The name Taiji is used to refer to the theory of Taiji - ie Yin and Yang, present in the movements.

Really nice form BTW!
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