Rectum is lifted

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Rectum is lifted

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:55 am

Subitai wrote:
everything wrote:Subitai, can you further elaborate?

I'm reading all the Sun manuals on this site now.

He talks a lot about energy but doesn't mention this point about "rectum" often, and doesn't go into detail. There are other points he emphasizes often so they must be more important.



Ah Crap, I should never have spoken up...I didn't want to get sucked too much into this! ( PUN INTENDED ) You guys get my humor? ;D I sense crickets! hahahahaha ...


Well, my information is not just coming from just Suns books but more so how it was related to me from my sifu yada yada yada ....from Sun Jian Yun.


Is that you in the clip
Maarten using the word Clench is right on...although I have to stress that it's NOT Heavy tension...It is as I said above in my example.

IF the body is a vessel and you're trying to store Chi...then it can escape via "you know where". Your mind is aware of it...you just don't have to stress out thinking about it. You certainly don't want to perform the set looking "Anal Retentive" ...LOL. The body as a gauge or (mercury Meter) example can be used to temper out the breathing:

- It can be really simple in and out (via nose only) Mind to lower dan tien. This is pretty standard stuff for you I Imagine, "Long is your inhale = Long is your exhale". This is because most people with weak breath control only take a shallow inhale (lazy)...yet let everything out on the exhale.

- Or We also learned to divide the torso into 3rds (upper, middle and Lower) But when you breathe... you try to only replace the top 2/3 's of your air...the lower 1/3 of it to keep down in the belly as a reserve. Only when you return to Wuji do you completely recycle ALL of your (Air/Chi)...i.e. return to empty or nothing...no root & no mind.


From Wuji...no mind, no root (empty) and I laugh as I type this.... no thought about rectum closing. Then a thought begins in upper dan tien and proceeds down to lower DT...as if the kua is a vessel. For example filling with water....to make the Dan tien more FULL prior to even beginning the form we wrap our hands gently backwards and squeeze gently with our elbows to COMPRESS the vessel. It is at this point....and it pains me to say this "that the mind closes the rectum". But I don't go all hippie about it and think about this sh!t allot ok. So now that I've said this stuff... I'm expecting jokes galore...go ahead I can take it. :P

Above all however the breathing should never be forced and should just be natural...it's just how the mind and Intent is being focused underneath it all that matters.

SLT, talked about beginning his Taiji from Wu ji (wu chi , spelling?) with feet set at a 90deg angle (toe pointed outwards and heels NOT touching) to make sure you always began from nothing and then proceed to develop your chi. Afterwards you return to Wuji. You should always finish by walking(minimum of 200 steps), sometimes briskly waving arms to help disperse the chi you have collected...obviously with NO intention of rectum closure.

I can show you a video section of how this begins...although I don't really talk too much in detail about what is going on Internally.
Here starting at about 30secs:

Please keep in mind, that i'm trying to show an alternate way to apply that movement other than the standard.

Getting back to the breathing... then end result of this type of breathing focus , when you are done with your form...you can literally feel the Cheeks of your face being drawn in. It cannot be faked or forced, it either happens organically because you did it correctly or not at all.

Lastly, does it help my fighting ability at all? I gather not but it was still something cool to learn at the time.



So is that you in the clip
Last edited by wayne hansen on Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rectum is lifted

Postby Subitai on Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:53 am

Yes sir that's me...
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Re: Rectum is lifted

Postby everything on Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:37 am

when you say clenching, can you use an analogy related to go or not go #2? So for example, clench as if you're about to go, as if you want to hold it, etc. but much subtler? Kind of like that? As soon as I think about what you guys said and want to give it a try, my mind thinks of this analogy because I don't really know what other common experience to relate it to. Serious question.
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Re: Rectum is lifted

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:46 am

Subitai wrote:Yes sir that's me...


Good to put a face to the name
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Re: Rectum is lifted

Postby Subitai on Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:47 pm

everything wrote:when you say clenching, can you use an analogy related to go or not go #2? So for example, clench as if you're about to go, as if you want to hold it, etc. but much subtler? Kind of like that? As soon as I think about what you guys said and want to give it a try, my mind thinks of this analogy because I don't really know what other common experience to relate it to. Serious question.


I prefer " close" or "closed" (as opposed) to clenched because between the two, the latter almost seems to imply more force... And frankly I picture in my mind a kid trying to hold it. :D

Yes more subtle, as if your "eye" (hint, hint) closed normally....but not clenched with tension. Remember my example of a fly on your skin, you "feel" it there yet you allow it to remain. A part of your mind will always subtly be aware of it.

I feel creepy now talking about this too much....haha. I think I'm gonna go outside and use my tools and do other manly stuff now. Hahaha.
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Re: Rectum is lifted

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:59 pm

I think of the distance between open and closed to be minuscule
I often tell my students is that they must be able to feel it but someone watching not able to see it
In fma they have too positions abiata and serada
Closed is cross hands open is single whip
There are many other variations of open and closed
Holding standing postures although you may not appear to move to those looking on
Open and close happens with the breath and this is where noi gung lies
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Re: Rectum is lifted

Postby windwalker on Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:32 pm

In the military we used to talk about the "pucker factor"

Thought this might be interesting along with the other post on the topic

Humans sometimes defecate at times of extreme fear due to the acute stress response (aka the "flight or fight" response).

When we are experiencing extreme fear, the sympathetic nervous system goes into overdrive and produces a state wherein we are better prepared to engage the source of the fear in a struggle or better prepared to flee from it.


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/20 ... ls_fright/

Other temporary physiological changes include dilation of blood vessels for muscles, constriction of blood vessels in parts of the body not needed for fighting or fleeing, liberation of nutrients needed for muscular action, inhibition of tear glands and salivation, dilation of the pupil, inhibition of stomach and intestinal action, inhibition of erection in males, and relaxation of elimination control. Thus, under circumstances of acute stress such as in extreme fear, the bladder and bowels can "let go".


damm cant get it up, and cant hold it in. :P
Maybe some of the practices mentioned helped to control, prevent, or mitigate this by exercising voluntary control over it.

Of course if let go, one could always throw it at the attacker. Don't know about others, it would
make me think twice, works for the apes at the Zoo, when ever they'er pissed off :o
talk about "internal" :-\
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Re: Rectum is lifted

Postby everything on Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:50 pm

LOL
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: Rectum is lifted

Postby meeks on Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:44 pm

The question is how to lift the anus without using brute force or concentric contraction?


Why not a contraction? Is it assumed that everything must be completely relaxed?

When we 'ti gang' (hoist the anus) it's performed as if hoisting the rectum will cause the anus to lift, thereby unifying part of the pelvic floor.

Back in the 90s I often met taiji guys that thought everything had to be completely relaxed and that 'ti gang' was more of an energetic connection rather than a physical 'hoist' (hoist meaning to lift from above). There definitely is contraction to accomplish this.
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Re: Rectum is lifted

Postby Yeung on Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:25 am

Why use concentric muscle contraction if there is another alternative of not to use brute force? Maybe the technique of separate forces of above and below 上下分争 can achieve it. It sort of like raise your head and sink your lower extremity.
Last edited by Yeung on Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rectum is lifted

Postby meeks on Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:28 am

there is no 'brute force' here Yeung. We aren't fighting traveller's diahrea, we are simply using tissues within the body to hoist the anus, the amount of hoist commensurate to the tension required at that particular moment.

Are you looking for advice to change your mind based on a logical response or are you simply looking to validate why you 'visualize' or 'intentionalize' your connections?
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Re: Rectum is lifted

Postby suckinlhbf on Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:14 pm

Somebody said 提肛收腹 and 提肛開肋. 收腹 is to pull in the gut, and 開肋 is to open the ribs - mainly the lower ribs. Guess if can do 收腹 and 開肋 when 提肛, it is the 穀道上提. 穀道 may not mean a particular part. Think it means the upward path from anus.
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Re: Rectum is lifted

Postby Yeung on Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:20 am

suckinlhbf wrote:Somebody said 提肛收腹 and 提肛開肋. 收腹 is to pull in the gut, and 開肋 is to open the ribs - mainly the lower ribs. Guess if can do 收腹 and 開肋 when 提肛, it is the 穀道上提. 穀道 may not mean a particular part. Think it means the upward path from anus.


Thank you for the example of withholding stool.
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