what happened to Fu Zhensong's students and line?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

what happened to Fu Zhensong's students and line?

Postby everything on Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:26 pm

Fu studied BGZ with Ma Gui, Cheng Tinghua, XYQ and TJQ with Sun Lutang, TJQ with Yang Chengfu and Chen Yanxi (Chen village) according to wikipedia.

It seemed he died after over-exertion from demoing his forms faster and faster, aged 80 or 81.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu_Zhensong

But what happened to his students after that? Did/do they study the big 3 IMA? Focus mainly on baguazhang? Other? I think I have a book about his taijiquan, but reading only on wikipedia (not sure of sources), he seemed to be more known for baguazhang.

Edit: a random page listing some of his students https://www.plumpub.com/info/Bios/bio_FuZhenSong.htm

Also, his grandson apparently teaches in Vancouver: http://www.fustyle.com/new/pages/about-us

Any RSF people learning Fu Style by chance?
Last edited by everything on Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: what happened to Fu Zhensong's students and line?

Postby nicklinjm on Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:59 pm

Fu style bagua seems to be pretty healthy here in HK, have seen several people practicing it in the parks and there is even a Fu style bagua association headed by Chiu Pui-lo (赵培鲁). If you can read Chinese, link is here: http://www.fustylebaguazhang.com/
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Re: what happened to Fu Zhensong's students and line?

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:52 pm

I had a friend who was engaged to Raymond Chung ,s son
When Raymond fled China only he and his daughter escaped
His son and whife stayed in China
His son was adopted by fu wing Fei and trained beside bow sim mark and her sister.
I learned forms from the girl he was engaged to
He is in Canada,bow sim Mark and her sister in the states
I am pretty sure Fu,s son is also there
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Re: what happened to Fu Zhensong's students and line?

Postby Bao on Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:12 pm

Seems to have been quite a well known chap...

https://youtu.be/cKQrRQsxPMY
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Re: what happened to Fu Zhensong's students and line?

Postby everything on Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:28 am

nicklinjm wrote:Fu style bagua seems to be pretty healthy here in HK, have seen several people practicing it in the parks and there is even a Fu style bagua association headed by Chiu Pui-lo (赵培鲁). If you can read Chinese, link is here: http://www.fustylebaguazhang.com/


cool thanks. can only read a tiny amount, but google translate to the rescue, somewhat.

thanks, everyone.

it gets me wondering in general about how much knowledge of the big 3 was carried on by individuals after the time of Dong, Cheng, Sun, Fu, etc. Obviously the RSF main board is called "Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan" so there is at least interest here, but it doesn't sound like many individuals "inherited" that much breadth, depth, and quality of knowledge and skill. At least, it doesn't seem likely to me. I hear a lot of posters talk about their teacher in ONE of these arts, but not really 2 or 3 (with a few exceptions).
Last edited by everything on Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: what happened to Fu Zhensong's students and line?

Postby Taste of Death on Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:13 am

Henry Look named his school TIMA (Tri Internal Martial Arts) and taught the three main internal arts and yiquan zhan zhuang.
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Re: what happened to Fu Zhensong's students and line?

Postby everything on Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:28 am

I know there are various teachers who sought out separate teachers of one of the big 3 so that they could cover all 3. Not sure if that was what Look did. It's probably always like that. My proverbial BJJ coach and my muay thai coach help me with my personal mixed MA.

But I still wonder what happened after that generation - if people were able to pass down their skills linearly. I suspect not since this just isn't the way things work. Messi's sons will not be the world's best in football/soccer. Same with Michael Jordan's kids in basketball. Same with Mayweather, Jr's kids. Same with Mozart's kids. And so on. But curious nevertheless.
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Re: what happened to Fu Zhensong's students and line?

Postby Fubo on Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:56 pm

I trained Fu style Bagua for a good number of years in HK. There's a lot of people teach Fu style in HK and in Southern China. I'm not too familiar with the guys in China other than it's Fu's son that passed it down which actually differs in flavor quite a bit from the grandson in Canada. A lot, it not all, the Fu style in HK comes from Sun Bo Gong, as Sun moved to HK to settle. I studied with 2 of Sun's students and from what I gathered, they mostly practiced the Bagua, Liangyiquan and Taiji, but not the Xingyi. I think the guys in China, and possibly some other branches in HK maintained the Xingyi training. The group I trained with practiced in Kowloon Park, the New territories and at the Chin Woo school in Kowloon. There was another group in Kowloon park and Chin Woo that branched off from our lineage and trained with another lineage and got different material from them. A lot of the other groups guys cross trained in Aikido. They seemed to have a wider range of variations for doing the Bagua forms, and some of which were softer in nature to the way I learned them. The Sun branched emphasized a kind of springy rebound quality to their forms. I can't speak for the other groups, but there was not a tone of applications training happening, and I remember having to encourage some students to drill techniques and spar with me. Some students ended up cross training with the My Jhong Law Hon group at Chin Woo as they did a lot of kick boxing with Muay Thai guys and competed. Don't know what else to add other than there are a bunch of groups around HK teaching Fu Bagua, not too much Fu Xing Yi, quality of instruction vary suite drastically. Some practical techniques and some very impractical techniques due to misinterpretations of the spinning in the forms. I prefer to train different stuff these days, but enjoyed it back in the day.

There are also branches in the US. Johnny Lee (Sun Bo Gong lineage) is in Texas (I think his guys compete in Lei Tai?) and there's some on the west coast from Liang Qiang Ya who was a de pile of Fu Zhen Song.
Last edited by Fubo on Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: what happened to Fu Zhensong's students and line?

Postby everything on Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:02 pm

Fascinating man thanks. Too bad about any practicality disappearances.
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Re: what happened to Fu Zhensong's students and line?

Postby Fubo on Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:52 pm

everything wrote:Fascinating man thanks. Too bad about any practicality disappearances.


Sure thing. I don't mean to talk down on it, I think the Fu style contains a lot of really good training tools. The forms if one knows how to train them and what they're for, are good forms and the "Bagua push hands" which is essentially a 2 person form that focused on developing sensitivity to force and angles of attack by seeking superior position via foot work was really good.. It also contained good foundational exercises that helped to develop strength, flexibility and body method. So I found the solo and some paired training to be quite complete. I found that some people would demonstrate applications that seemed clearly retrofitted for the form. This is not a judgement, just and observation that either some of the applications were lost or not passed on. Some applications were logical and some just straight up goofy. This is of course the case with any CMA where you have schools that manage to retain the real deal, some of the same style that have bits and pieces. Either way, I think from a historical stand point, the Fu style in southern China and especially HK is note worthy as it's had the most impact of any Bagua style there and is the most widely practiced there. I remember looking for Bagua training in HK back in 2001 and all I could find was Fu style and CS Tangs Gao style. This was back when a lot of teachers didn't have an internet presence, and there wasn't a lot of teachers from the mainland coming over to teach. Cheng style was hard to find back then, and Liang and Sun style were non existent. You'd walk around parks in the morning and all the see was Fu style as far as Bagua went. Feel free to ask any more specific questions and I'll do my best to answer.
Last edited by Fubo on Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: what happened to Fu Zhensong's students and line?

Postby Eric_H on Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:59 pm

I study from the Wong Hung version of the line, through my Sigung GM Peter Kim Ho Chu and Sifu GM Garrett Gee.

We refer to ourselves as Kim Ho Chu Style these days so as not to draw any conflict with the Fu Family, who have a much different approach to certain sections of training material.
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Re: what happened to Fu Zhensong's students and line?

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:16 pm

I was tryIng to think of Liangs name
Pretty sure he was the guy who appeared on the cover of tai chi
It is one of the best articles I have read on internal training
He knows his stuff
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Re: what happened to Fu Zhensong's students and line?

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:33 pm

Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: what happened to Fu Zhensong's students and line?

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:43 pm

This is the best friend and training partner of one of my teachers Colin Chau
Colin would often show me dragon ba kua,at the time I didn't realise it was Fu

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... 31pyksaKU_
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Re: what happened to Fu Zhensong's students and line?

Postby Yeung on Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:09 am

Lieutenant General Sun Bao Gang (1909-1990) was one of the 24th intakes of Chinese students from China by the Imperial Japanese Army Academy (陸軍士官学校 Rikugun Shikan Gakkō). He and others returned to China after the Japanese invasion of Manchuria in China began on 18th September, 1931. He joined the Nationalist Army and while he was in Nanjing he learned Taijiquan from Sun Lutang (1860-1933). He stationed in Guangzhou in 1933 where he learned Baguaquan privately from Fu Zhensong (1872–1953) and trained regularly with him until the Sino Japanese war broke out in 1938. After the war in 1945 he met up with Fu Zhensong again until he was forced to leave China in 1949 by the Nationalist Government due to his political association.
Upon the invitation of the Hong Kong Chinwoo Athletic Association in 1966, he began to teach Baguaquan voluntarily in the association twice a week until a few months before he passed away in 6th September 1990. He was very active in advocating the independence of Hong Kong until 1984 when Britain agreed to hand back Hong Kong to China in 1997. Since then he focused on improving what he learned from Fu Zhensong. And I had the privilege to work with him on the recoiling energy of the Baguaquan of Fu Zhensong, stone locks, and adherent fighting from 1984 to 1990.
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