Elo ratings in MA

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Elo ratings in MA

Postby everything on Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:52 pm

Elo ratings are used in chess and some other areas including team sports.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system
Your rating goes up by winning against competition depending on the rating of the competition. And goes down in the same way in the losing direction.

Someone did some ratings for BJJ matches:
https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/5 ... _some_bjj/
The top competitor is at 2027. Most white belts would probably be 200-300, but could go way up fast, e.g., other grapplers should progress more quickly.

This doesn't necessarily solve belt rank issues, but it is an objective performance-based rating based on transparent statistical models.

If you compete in chess, you more or less know, with some mathematical precision, where you are at. It could be the same in sportive MA.
Last edited by everything on Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Elo ratings in MA

Postby Steve James on Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:06 pm

Yeah, but Kasparov's rating is lower than Carlsen's.
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Re: Elo ratings in MA

Postby everything on Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:12 pm

As a more recent player, has he defeated more players with higher ratings (assuming the field has improved a lot and the competitive landscape is now tougher)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... ut_history
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Re: Elo ratings in MA

Postby Taste of Death on Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:20 pm

Steve James wrote:Yeah, but Kasparov's rating is lower than Carlsen's.


That is what he gets for cheating against a 17 year old Judit Polgar and spending 15 minutes ranting in an official's face after he lost to a 15 year old boy. Being a sexist asshole has its downsides.
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Re: Elo ratings in MA

Postby everything on Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:45 pm

Back somewhat on topic, it's probably practically impossible, but don't you think it's theoretically a good idea? If you respond with a mathematical criticism, please answer my probability topic. ;D
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Re: Elo ratings in MA

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:02 pm

The problem is that one person may be playing Western Chess and another Chinese Chess...
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Re: Elo ratings in MA

Postby everything on Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:04 pm

yes it can only work in one sport at a time, preferably organized internationally (more possible matches = better ratings for everyone)

but there is no reason different stylists cannot compete in different sports. for example, various grapplers can compete in various grappling formats. various MAists can compete in MMA, although amateur MMA seems way, way, way too dangerous for the amount of matches and competitors needed for good ratings.

maybe this can (theoretically) work in major grappling formats only.
Last edited by everything on Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Elo ratings in MA

Postby Steve James on Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:12 pm

Well, the ratings in chess are actually used to determine who can play in the tournaments with the highest rated players. And, there are a lot of tournaments. Otoh, everyone in chess has a rating, and it's based on the ratings of those you are expected to be able to beat.

Here's what Kasparov had to say about ratings.

Asked 'who stands out among the young chess players', Kasparov answered:

The most talented is Carlsen, who is of course a star of the first order. In contrast to the situation in athletics, chess records depend on “inflation”. When I was climbing to the top you’d count one or two people with a 2700 rating and that was that, while now it’s at least 45 people.
In fact, due to the increase in those playing chess the base of the pyramid has grown, and that adds points at every level. Fischer’s rating was 2785 in 1972, but that’s of course much more significant than Carlsen’s higher rating now. It can be compared to my 2851 in 1999. The evolutionary factor is having an impact, so despite the mathematical basis of ratings I nevertheless wouldn’t attribute such historical importance to them.

When Fischer was climbing to the top he’d score +6, I’d score +6-7, while Carlsen scores +3-4. That's simply enough, as the pyramid really has grown, and today’s super-tournaments are now rated above 2750. The only tournament with a similar rating was in 1996. At the tournament in Las Palmas, which featured myself, Karpov, Kramnik, Anand, Ivanchuk and Topalov, the top six were all playing. That tournament was unique, although by current standards the ratings of the top players weren’t the highest. So you have to take that into account if you want to carry out a historical analysis.
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Re: Elo ratings in MA

Postby everything on Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:03 pm

So a sort of inflation I guess
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Re: Elo ratings in MA

Postby Taste of Death on Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:21 pm

What would McGregor's rating be after he barely beat an undertrained Chad Mendes and then lost to Nate Diaz? If they had a legitimate rating system rather than allowing Dana White to promote his favorites ("Love his/her attitude, who cares if he/she earned this title shot?") the UFC would be viewed in a different light. Now we have a highly ranked boxer fighting a boxer with no ranking.
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Re: Elo ratings in MA

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:43 pm

I'm not interested in who is the best fighter on any given day, just in whether or not the teacher that I intend to learn from can spar competently under the ruleset of their style. I hold myself to this same standard, which is why I haven't opened a school yet.
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Re: Elo ratings in MA

Postby everything on Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:24 am

That makes sense at an individual level. The Elo ratings are about figuring out where a large group of individuals are at, relatively objectively, based on a large number of matches, over a period of time such as a few years (not on a given day). It's supposed to factor in the strength of the competition (their rating), so if McGregor beats a "can", it barely helps him if at all.
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Re: Elo ratings in MA

Postby Subitai on Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:19 pm

Perhaps it's because i'm from the 80's but when I saw ELO I immediately thought of this:

You may now return to your regularly scheduled program. :)
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Re: Elo ratings in MA

Postby everything on Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:55 pm

lol yes

p.s. I don't get "don't bring me down, groos". I thought it was "Bruce". But either way it makes no sense to me.
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Re: Elo ratings in MA

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:06 pm

Bruce is the name of the animatronic shark in Jaws.. :D
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