the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

So, is it legal to run a business teaching Gongfu in parks, on beaches, on university campuses, etc. in the U.S? Does doing it full or part-time make a difference? I'm used to training like that in China and like training with clothes and shoes on, on less-than-perfect surfaces, in any weather. I especially make a lot of use out of trees, which are hard to put into a classroom. Also, passers-by could be prospective students.

Do you think that others will be willing to train like that, in the Mid-West, for example? Or is that too far out of their comfort zone?

Later, if I buy my own property, I could build my own training area in the back yard, but that won't happen overnight. Since I hope to be moving to America next year, your input will be greatly appreciated.

I believe that it depends on the particular location you are teaching in. Plenty of teachers do it. In fact, I believe I came across something online about a situation in Denver, where so many fitness trainers were using public parks for classes that you couldn't go for a stroll without stepping on someone. The law got involved and regulations were implemented. If it's just a few students, you're OK, if it becomes a circus..... well....... who knows? Anyway, if you want to be safe, get personal liability insurance and get your students to sign a waiver. You should do that regardless of class location.

I think you will have a problem with consistency regarding inclement weather in the Mid-West.

Don't forget the crazy people that just wanders by. Just because you can beat them physically doesn't mean anything. They have nothing to lose but you can lose everything from a tiny incident.

When I trained in the park on the end of Cabrini blv. in NYC before 2000, there was also old Chinese Gent /sometimes with the wife/ .
Teacher from near by YMCA internal club /I suppose /.
I`ve been there 3-4 years almost everyday.
AND
Guess what? - nobody ever asked anything, not to me, nor Chinese guy.
To be honest - I heard once:
WTF they are doin`? from a pair passing by ,
and
couple of times, some crazy guy was running around us - / in a distant circle/ ,I was with my wife too, - he was collecting energy
produced by our practice...
o, and I recall also:
I get comment - wow, you`re very flexible ... ,once

so,
M. - idea is good, but not necessary for NYC, or maybe Central Park in NYC could be better?, don`t know,
Suppose, that California is more open minded for Parks venues ,

Have learnt and taught in parks in NY for over 30 years, two parks in Queens, Central park, Prospect park, Several parks in Chinatown. Usually there are fellow martial artists around and it is no big deal. Respect the others you should be fine. Over that period had maybe two or three incidents, usually easily defused. Warning, dont push hands with strangers egos are easily bruised, sometimes people will wander over and comment--ignore them, they are recruiting

In some public places depending on group size, there may be some restrictions
which will tend to prevent one from teaching in those locations.

In any case liability ins, if one is teaching as a living is a good recommendation
just in protection of ones self if one is teaching for a living.

The push hands with strangers is also worth noting, and should be considered.
Takes a lot of skill not to hurt them nor allow them to hurt oneself. Unless one knows them or
its a real inquiry I've found its not really productive often a waste of time....

Best to just offer some light sparring as in try anything you like and see what happens, if they want to test the waters

Usually when I have people asking about my own work, I show them something that looks simple that most will or would
not be able to do without some training...a movement..They try it and soon realize there is more to what they see.

Dance studios often rent space, this might be a good consideration

I don know about US, but I think it will be ok with authorities and public if your training group is not large, noisy and too colorful as the Chinese square dancing groups here in China. I Just moved to another city and just outside our apartment on the sidewalk there are two of these groups seemingly competing who can be most flamboyant and noisy, annoying as hell. Otherwise as said, don't accept push-hands and such with strangers...and be careful about swinging around with weapons(Jian,Dao and so on) in public

Not sure about the laws. If you're moving to the midwest, it'll be rather cold for several months - maybe Nov-as late as Apr. Not sure how easy it'd be to get an outdoors group going. Although I noticed after sub-freezing temps, people think 40F (about 4.5 C) is shorts weather, so you never know.

If you'd classify gongfu as exercise, and you accept payment, I think the rules would be the same for a trainer. There are probably regulations that you can look up for that category. Of course, no one will stop you or anyone from giving classes in a park. If you just start practicing and people join in, I think you're free to do as you please. Otoh, if you want to advertise, etc., or really start a business, there are probably hoops that you should go through. You might consider asking people to sign releases, just in case.

MaartenSFS wrote:So, is it legal to run a business teaching Gongfu in parks, on beaches, on university campuses, etc. in the U.S?

It is certainly legal in public parks and on public beaches in Texas. I have friends who train in Austin on U.T. campus, you just have to deal with the occasional nosy security guard if you're waving around a weapon.

.Q. wrote:Don't forget the crazy people that just wanders by.

Yep. Back when I used to do Chen Taiji in the park, I can remember one time where a drunk was passed out in our area. We started doing Taiji anyway, and when he woke up he just stumbled away.

On any given day, you can find an outdoor fitness class operating at your local park. While this type of activity may be appealing to you and your clients, it can be challenging to get permission to use outdoor spaces. Many people in charge of venues such as parks require permits. What’s tricky is that outdoor fitness programming doesn’t often fit into the mold of common permits. Outdoor codes for many parks and recreation departments were written a long time ago, when codes applied to teams renting baseball or soccer fields.

Paying Fees. Many parks ask small fitness businesses for fees that are too high for them. While parks may initially ask for fees that are unaffordable, we have found that those fees are negotiable and that sometimes you can use the venue for no fee. Many parks ask fitness professionals for a split; in that case, work toward a 70/30 split. Better yet, see if the park will take a flat monthly rate that is affordable for you and that the park’s administrators can depend on.

http://www.ideafit.com/fitness-library/ ... s-you-need

Some of the outdoor areas I've tried to set up some training, did have restrictions on what an organized group could do even to the point of
not allowing any type of activity that was not allowed by them in advance.

As always it may and will very according ones area and location.

best of luck

chud wrote:

MaartenSFS wrote:So, is it legal to run a business teaching Gongfu in parks, on beaches, on university campuses, etc. in the U.S?

It is certainly legal in public parks and on public beaches in Texas. I have friends who train in Austin on U.T. campus, you just have to deal with the occasional nosy security guard if you're waving around a weapon.

.Q. wrote:Don't forget the crazy people that just wanders by.

Yep. Back when I used to do Chen Taiji in the park, I can remember one time where a drunk was passed out in our area. We started doing Taiji anyway, and when he woke up he just stumbled away.

Back when I practiced Karate, one very hot summer day we had one of the big doors of our Dojo open, right outside was the busy street. A guy come rushing in screaming and throwing crazy kicks and punches in the air and as quickly he came in he rushed out again.. Quite funny actually

The only problem I've seen is the group size issue mentioned previously.

Also, some places like in Tucson unofficially prefer you do it in off hours, like early morning or evenings, when families aren't there so you don't get in the way of their simply enjoying the park.

MaartenSFS wrote:So, is it legal to run a business teaching Gongfu in parks, on beaches, on university campuses, etc. in the U.S? Does doing it full or part-time make a difference? I'm used to training like that in China and like training with clothes and shoes on, on less-than-perfect surfaces, in any weather. I especially make a lot of use out of trees, which are hard to put into a classroom. Also, passers-by could be prospective students.

Do you think that others will be willing to train like that, in the Mid-West, for example? Or is that too far out of their comfort zone?

Later, if I buy my own property, I could build my own training area in the back yard, but that won't happen overnight. Since I hope to be moving to America next year, your input will be greatly appreciated.

Such a broad question that there is only one answer: it depends.

Is it legal? In the major cities, probably not. Some may require a license or permit to be legal.
Can you do it? Well, that's a far different question. Maybe.

Let's take the major park in Boston, MA. Boston Commons. According to the regulations, "No person shall, in any public park (including any boundary road thereof) or other public place (including any parkway) under the control of the Parks and Recreation Commission; unless under a lease or concession granted under Chapter 365 of the Acts of 1897, and unless a written permit be on their person or prominently displayed, engage in any commercial enterprise or solicit business or display or distribute any commercial advertising matter; nor shall any person, except in accordance with a written permit from the Commissioner of Parks and Recreation, have or drive in or on any such park or place (or boundary road or parkway) any vehicle having a seating capacity of more than eight passengers."

So, no, you couldn't legally run a business and teach Gongfu in the Boston Commons park without a license or permit. But, again, can you do it? You might if everyone thinks you're just some random group practicing. Until either a park officer or someone complains.

How about the parks near Logan City, Utah? The rule is, "Soliciting or selling of merchandise, tickets, or services is prohibited without a Special Event Permit." Depends, I guess. They could view your business teaching people in their park as "soliciting a service". Unlikely, though. But, if the right person complains ...


Every city, every state, and the US Gov't have laws and regulations regarding uses of parks. You'll have to narrow things down to what state, what city, what park and then look at the laws, regulations, etc.

Thanks for your replies, gentlemen. I'll ponder on it a bit more, but I suppose I'll just have to see when I get there.