Resistance training and Macro-nutrition

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Resistance training and Macro-nutrition

Postby willie on Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:39 am

Appledog wrote:
willie wrote:This is an interesting post.
I have very formidable taijiquan. It is not Americanized either.
Could you please give me some hard evidence? Or are you just repeating something that you heard too many times?
Please keep in mind that it seems that most of the supposed authorities end up getting beat up in seconds.
Do you think that this could be considered hard evidence of wrongful personal opinion's?
Thanks


If you can feel your qi then you should understand. Can you feel your qi? If not then maybe I can help you. I just dunno what you mean by "formidable". I've been all around the world and seen a lot of stuff, very little of it is tai chi. You have to make a decision. Knowing that it doesn't make you any better or worse. Do you want to learn Tai Chi specifically, or just get good at IMA? Maybe if we meet someday I can show you or explain it to you. But most of the time what people do diverges so much the only way to really compare skills is to fight and I'm not interested in that right now.


Did you really write that? LOL!
Please tell me why you assume those types of things?
willie

 

Re: Resistance training and Macro-nutrition

Postby Appledog on Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:32 am

Hello, I'd like to maintain a 'cool post count' of 108 posts. This particular post has gone beyond that number and has therefore expired.

I'm sorry if you were looking for some old information but I'll do my best to answer you if you send me a DM with a question in it.
Last edited by Appledog on Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Resistance training and Macro-nutrition

Postby Appledog on Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:41 am

Hello, I'd like to maintain a 'cool post count' of 108 posts. This particular post has gone beyond that number and has therefore expired.

I'm sorry if you were looking for some old information but I'll do my best to answer you if you send me a DM with a question in it.
Last edited by Appledog on Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Resistance training and Macro-nutrition

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:59 pm

Apart from the college level statement what you say is mostly right
I just watched the first Australian Ninja Warrior
It was interesting to watch those that had big strong bodies fail due to the fact that their weight training did not suit the task at hand
Not only is it older people's problems with damage that hurts development but also the type of training they have done
I don't take any wing Chun students and students from certain tai chi teachers
Not because I don't want to help but just because I don't want to do that much work
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Resistance training and Macro-nutrition

Postby willie on Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:08 pm

Appledog wrote:
You didn't answer my question, I asked you if you could feel your qi.


So you have traveled the world and seen thousands of things that were not taiji?
Do you understand just how common and generic that sounds?

Do you understand that you, for all I know may not even know taiji yourself? Even if it was presented to you, you still may not understand.
However, I don't know you. So I prefer to assume that you are better then you might actually be.
I have presented over 100 video's to this board from time to time on my taiji. I haven't seen yours.

I was challenged in Chinatown Boston by a Chinese guy named "Apple"...
Last edited by willie on Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Resistance training and Macro-nutrition

Postby Appledog on Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:41 pm

Hello, I'd like to maintain a 'cool post count' of 108 posts. This particular post has gone beyond that number and has therefore expired.

I'm sorry if you were looking for some old information but I'll do my best to answer you if you send me a DM with a question in it.
Last edited by Appledog on Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Resistance training and Macro-nutrition

Postby willie on Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:28 pm

wayne hansen wrote:Apart from the college level statement what you say is mostly right
I just watched the first Australian Ninja Warrior
It was interesting to watch those that had big strong bodies fail due to the fact that their weight training did not suit the task at hand
Not only is it older people's problems with damage that hurts development but also the type of training they have done
I don't take any wing Chun students and students from certain tai chi teachers
Not because I don't want to help but just because I don't want to do that much work


This is pretty much what I expected from you. Sort-of like the fat bully chick. LOL!

I just checked my blood pressure a half hour ago.
123, 79, RHR of 69.

How's your blood pressure Wayne?

Oh and my waist is similar in size to when I was 20 years old, 31", How about yours?
You should listen to the guy who posted the statement on fatty liver disease, He is right.
When is the last time you checked your BMI?
willie

 

Re: Resistance training and Macro-nutrition

Postby willie on Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:42 pm

Appledog wrote:
willie wrote:
Appledog wrote:
You didn't answer my question, I asked you if you could feel your qi.


So you have traveled the world and seen thousands of things that were not taiji?
Do you understand just how common and generic that sounds?

Do you understand that you, for all I know may not even know taiji yourself? Even if it was presented to you, you still may not understand.
However, I don't know you. So I prefer to assume that you are better then you might actually be.
I have presented over 100 video's to this board from time to time on my taiji. I haven't seen yours.

I was challenged in Chinatown Boston by a Chinese guy named "Apple"...


This would be easier if you just answered the question.


The answer is yes, What does that have to do with this topic?
I've read your argument and have disregarded your statements.
Your unbalanced spinning top for example was a bit over the top. LOL!

First mistake is to judge someone because of their build.
Someone even wrote that it , (meaning the muscle) needs to be ripped off. LOL!
like it's something completely non-human.

Everyone has muscle, you need it. The body doesn't move without it. Proving that every tai chi teacher who
claims that it is a bad thing is totally wrong. Ya can't walk or talk or anything else without it.
Last edited by willie on Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
willie

 

Re: Resistance training and Macro-nutrition

Postby Appledog on Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:27 pm

Hello, I'd like to maintain a 'cool post count' of 108 posts. This particular post has gone beyond that number and has therefore expired.

I'm sorry if you were looking for some old information but I'll do my best to answer you if you send me a DM with a question in it.
Last edited by Appledog on Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Resistance training and Macro-nutrition

Postby cloudz on Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:31 am

Appledog wrote:
cloudz wrote:I was paying attention lol

Appledog basically cited this phenomena as to why weightlifting was bad/ contradictory to Taiji practice.
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/09/ ... -arm-trick

Maybe you should just link back to that post and take it from there. It will be an interesting discussion for sure. :D


If you were paying super special attention you will also know that some people skip the longer posts written at the college level because they are too difficult to understand.

The above (K. phenom) is one idea, here is another. Let's say you have a top and it's spinning. Now tape a coin to one side of the top and spin it again. The poorly-weighted top does not spin as well. Or, consider a scale where one arm has a penny glued to it. It will not balance properly.

If we consider known internal mechanisms such as Wolff's law or Davis' law, which would have been independently discovered by the Chinese internal researchers possibly 2000+ years ago, then you can imagine that the development of someone who was so imbalanced would create an imbalanced development, and as progress was made in this direction the unbalanced load would first need to correct itself, and then further the incorrect development must then be corrected and pulled back on-axis. Failing to do so can introduce many kinds of qi sickness, some of which could only be reversed by an expert who was familiar with the process (edit: familiar with the patient on a case by case basis).

Some kinds of bone, tissue and tendon growth are semi-permanent and improper development in these areas can damage your ability to learn arts like tai chi for the rest of your life. The work you would have to do to escape a hell like that is unimaginable but I suppose it could be done. In a way, we are all doing this to ourselves anyways, which is why training your legs properly when you are older is so difficult, because of the damage you have already done to your bodies...

But if you understand this and work hard you can still be better than anyone else around you, just maybe not as good as the ancestors.


I think any strength training program needs good care, attention, research. Of course people get it wrong, damage their bodies or just do things that may be innefiecient and or not optimal for their goals. You can talk about the problems and doing it wrong all day long. That's much easier than undertstanding the subject of weight/ resistence training to a high modern academic standard giving you the credentials to really know and recognise the good from the bad from an educated standpoint.

All I'm getting now is someone that although smart is over reaching. It's fine to have ideas, but that's what they are. Nothing you have said tells me that done sensibly and thoughfully weight training can't improve ones strength health and well being as well be combined with other modalities of training without any detrimental or counterproductive effects.

Our bodies are adapted and 'designed' to 'do work', we've been working the fields and building towers of stone for millenia. I think you're barking up the wrong tree, in general with this. It's yin and yang, it's complimentary. Just keep an eye on your balance (of yin yang), that is the true key, for me. If your message is one of caution and having sensible balanced goals, that's good. It feels more than that though which I don't really get. I'm not huge on weight training or anything but tried most types in some way. Never had any cause to see it as a problem; in moderation to supplement the activity I'm really into. ???
Last edited by cloudz on Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:21 am, edited 4 times in total.
Regards
George

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Re: Resistance training and Macro-nutrition

Postby Appledog on Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:17 am

Hello, I'd like to maintain a 'cool post count' of 108 posts. This particular post has gone beyond that number and has therefore expired.

I'm sorry if you were looking for some old information but I'll do my best to answer you if you send me a DM with a question in it.
Last edited by Appledog on Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Resistance training and Macro-nutrition

Postby cloudz on Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:29 am

fair play
look forward to it.
Last edited by cloudz on Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Regards
George

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Re: Resistance training and Macro-nutrition

Postby willie on Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:47 am

Appledog wrote:
I'm just having a discussion with you about what you asked me. If you don't like the answer that is one thing but you seem to be getting more and more uncomfortable the closer we get to an answer. If you don't want to continue this we can stop. It's clearly not your cup of tea. Am I right?


Your opinion is welcome, i'm not uncomfortable at all.
I have solid medical research behind the things that I believe and this is only one small example.

From WebMD

"From the time you are born to around the time you turn 30, your muscles grow larger and stronger. But at some point in your 30s, you start to lose muscle mass and function. The cause is age-related sarcopenia or sarcopenia with aging.

Physically inactive people can lose as much as 3% to 5% of their muscle mass each decade after age 30. Even if you are active, you’ll still have some muscle loss.

There’s no test or specific level of muscle mass that will diagnose sarcopenia. Any loss of muscle matters because it lessens strength and mobility.

Sarcopenia typically happens faster around age 75. But it may also speed up as early as 65 or as late as 80. It’s a factor in frailty and the likelihood of falls and fractures in older adults.

Symptoms and Causes of Sarcopenia

Symptoms can include weakness and loss of stamina, which can interfere with physical activity. Reduced activity further shrinks muscle mass.

Although sarcopenia is seen mostly in people who are inactive, the fact that it also occurs in people who stay physically active suggests there are other factors in its development. Researchers believe these include:

Reduction in nerve cells responsible for sending signals from the brain to the muscles to start movement
Lower concentrations of some hormones, including growth hormone, testosterone, and insulin-like growth factor
A decrease in the ability to turn protein into energy
Not getting enough calories or protein each day to sustain muscle mass."


A good medical doctor will tell his patient to go to the gym and start a weight resistance program...
willie

 

Re: Resistance training and Macro-nutrition

Postby windwalker on Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:50 am

Appledog wrote:
cloudz wrote:If your message is one of caution and having sensible balanced goals, that's good. It feels more than that though which I don't really get. I'm not huge on weight training or anything but tried most types in some way. Never had any cause to see it as a problem; in moderation to supplement the activity I'm really into. ???


Sure, weapons training and so forth will create certain kinds of load that are used in martial arts because that is the point of the arts. But lets say you're a tennis player and your right arm bones weight a pound more than your left. That creates certain kinds of problems -- nothing too serious, but you need to work through certain things. OTOH if your benching every day you are probably ruining your IMA.

Look forward to a special post on this in about 50 more days. I'm working on something.


The problem with this line of reasoning is that it depends on something that has yet to show results in present day
in accordance with an activity that past masters demoed their art in.

Go talk with any master archers and look at how their bodies developed according to the their craft.

The tennis player is good at tennis, at the level they play at their bodies adapt to enhance the activity..

What would be the activity that a taiji person is supposed to be good at?

How does anyone really know if not tested in the activity outside of push hands?

I have my own answers just interested in reading others.
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Re: Resistance training and Macro-nutrition

Postby cloudz on Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:04 am

David,

I'm pretty sure the group is thinking about fighters and fighting.
Regards
George

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