it's not a dAncE- two person fighting sets

[neijia_boxer]

This is a new topic based on the Yang taijiquan Cirriculum post earlier:

Wow, lot of stuff.

The complete Taiji Curriculum in my line is as follows

Warmups and Stretches
21 Chi Gung
150 Posture Solo Form
Sword Form
Sabre Form
Double Sabre Form
Cane Form
Fan Form
Staff Form
Spear Form
Push Hands Drills
Ta Lu
Two-Person Dance
San Tsai Fencing
Sabre Fencing
Wu Dang Fencing

I'm missing the Two-Person Dance, Staff, Spear, Double Sabre, Cane, and Wudang fencing. I think that's all.

Now, the Hsing-I is another thing entirely, and my own personal practices yet another.

ewwww.. why would you admit to want to learn or associate with the taiji dance? as i understand it there are two sides to this 88 two person form. martial artist call it two-person set, taiji enthusiasts call it a DANCE. Most styles of CMA including pakuachang, Xingyiquan have two person attack and defense forms to learn timing, distance, reaction. There are two groups that perform this- the martial artists who work to understand the applications and techniques, done fast and with intent. the other is the non-martial artist goofs that do it slow, with flow, and make it to the next level in Dancing with the stars.

anyways- i learned it as a attack/defense application form which is different from a dance, and when i hear the word DANCE i just cringe.

[river rider]

I've had the cringe reaction to the dance word, which made at least one of my teachers use it more... he felt some of us were too mechanical about the applications of the two-man form (focusing on single attack/defense scenarios), and wanted us to work harder on sensitivity, sticking, following, reading the opponent... so he teased us by calling it the taiji dance, and pointed out how good dancing (2 persons dancing) required at least some of the partnerwork skills he was trying to get into our thick heads.

[Franklin]

i am pretty sure that is from TT Liang's lineage

he called it tai chi dance

here is some info

practice tai chi to music:
http://www.tctaichi.com/articles/liang_music.htm

curriculum also explains a bit about tai chi 2 person dance:
http://www.tctaichi.com/articles/liang_completeset.htm


just FYI i am not from this lineage


franklin

[bruce]

tt liang did a two person dance to teach some aspects of tai chi chuan ...

[Ian]

I don't know why anyone would admit to training taichee fan.

[neijia_boxer]

when your old and feeble it becomes the taiji dance, when you want to train real skill, it is san shou.

[Bhassler]

.

[neijia_boxer]

If you were really serious about training, why would you even admit to reading about tai chi on the internet in the first place?

I fall back on tai chi chuan in my combat gameplan when i want to train but am injured and want something low impact.

[neimen]

ehh.

why train for 'flow' with a partner when it's clearly useless in a real combat situation.

as for 'dancing'--mas oyama must've been kidding, right? when his first question to prospective students was 'do you like music'.

[JessOBrien]

TT Liang insisted on calling his Tai Ji San Shou form "Two Person Dance". He felt that Taiji's signature skills of fluidity, sensitivity and relaxed power could be better trained if people put aside their fighting mentality for a while and just focused on the skills. many internal martial arts use cooperative training in order to teach real skills rather than testosterone fueled clinch contests. Jonathan Russell's book gives a very good description of the form and the skills it trains in his book.

"neijia boxer" is clearly just the type of person that TT Liang had in mind when he changed the name of the form. A lot of times our egos and vision of who we think we are clouds the training of the actual skills. Who gives a fuck what it's called, the 88 move san shou form contains a plethora of fighting skills that are quite useful in two-person interactions.

-Jess O'Brien

[steelincotton]

Good post Jess. Imo, people who start right off "banging" and "shoving" are missing the point.

Heck, I remember my first Shaolin/Wing Chun teacher use to have us walk the length of the floor, but "in rythmn" to James Brown's music. It felt good too! I didn't understand at the time, but it makes good sense to me now. Also, if a man like TT Liang who practiced and studied earnestly for all those years thought it was a good idea, I'm certainly not going to argue with him.

[TaoJoannes]

This is a new topic based on the Yang taijiquan Cirriculum post earlier:

Wow, lot of stuff.

The complete Taiji Curriculum in my line is as follows

Warmups and Stretches
21 Chi Gung
150 Posture Solo Form
Sword Form
Sabre Form
Double Sabre Form
Cane Form
Fan Form
Staff Form
Spear Form
Push Hands Drills
Ta Lu
Two-Person Dance
San Tsai Fencing
Sabre Fencing
Wu Dang Fencing

I'm missing the Two-Person Dance, Staff, Spear, Double Sabre, Cane, and Wudang fencing. I think that's all.

Now, the Hsing-I is another thing entirely, and my own personal practices yet another.

ewwww.. why would you admit to want to learn or associate with the taiji dance? as i understand it there are two sides to this 88 two person form. martial artist call it two-person set, taiji enthusiasts call it a DANCE. Most styles of CMA including pakuachang, Xingyiquan have two person attack and defense forms to learn timing, distance, reaction. There are two groups that perform this- the martial artists who work to understand the applications and techniques, done fast and with intent. the other is the non-martial artist goofs that do it slow, with flow, and make it to the next level in Dancing with the stars.

anyways- i learned it as a attack/defense application form which is different from a dance, and when i hear the word DANCE i just cringe.

Cringe away, Master Liang called it "Tai Ji San Shou" or "The Two Person Dance".

Since it's his system, he's the one that gets to name it, and for the list of persons who care what others think of it, I direct your attention to that brick wall over there. (With all due honor and respect intended)

Some more info: http://tctaichi.com/courses/san_shou.htm



Now I'll read the thread.

[TaoJoannes]

I don't know why anyone would admit to training taichee fan.

Because it's friggin awesome. I'll try to get a presentable demo together at some point in the coming months.

[jpaton]

all dancy (cooperative)--not good

all fighty (non-cooperative)--not good

you've got to do some cooperative to get good at non-cooperative.

from the TT book i read i'd guess he was a bit heavy on the dancy and light on the fighty.

[Ian]

I don't know why anyone would admit to training taichee fan.

Because it's friggin awesome. I'll try to get a presentable demo together at some point in the coming months.

Do you get to kiai as you whip those badboys open?

"KIAI!!!" *ZOP*