Most Representative Techniques for Thirteen Postures?

[johnwang]

Gaze and look are interchangeable in English.

In Han (Han Chin-Tang) Taiji system, those 4 directions are replaced by 闪转腾挪(Shan, Zhuan, Teng, Nuo) - dodge, turn, jump up, jump back. IMO, those 4 body methods make more sense than forward, backward, left, right.

[daniel pfister]

It seems obvious to me that I'll have to train these differently than Xingyi. I suppose my main goal is to achieve these skills in as short a time as possible, whilst skipping the form, and then testing them.

Some xingyi sets have a somewhat similar feel to the main jins your talking about in TJQ. But it's much harder to learn them the xingyi way IMO as the contact is often broken (by design) for the sake of training the intercepting ability.

I would still argue that the fastest way to learn these is through the tuishou routines that emphasize them. The reason is that you can get a lot of instant feedback on your structure (if your training partner is good enough) compared to doing a two-man form or practicing solo techniques. I do agree that not all ways of doing tuishou would be useful in this regard though.

[Steve James]

Well, methods aren't directions. But all methods will use left or right, forward or back. There's also up and down, but afa terminology, there's dodging, slipping, ducking, and other forms of evasion. Still, all use l,r,f, or back. All turns have to go left or right.

Hey, there's nothing wrong about dodge, turn, etc. They are specific; forward and backward are general.

Besides, the issue was the difference between look and gaze. It's the same, imo, as if you replaced dodge with evade, or use rotate instead of turn, or leap instead of jump. As in "dodge left," "evade right." There might be a difference, but it's really a matter of interpretation.

[robert]

In Han (Han Chin-Tang) Taiji system, those 4 directions are replaced by 闪转腾挪(Shan, Zhuan, Teng, Nuo) - dodge, turn, jump up, jump back. IMO, those 4 body methods make more sense than forward, backward, left, right.

Chen Xiaowang has mentioned something similar.

Teng - drop down
Shan - spring up
Zhe - folding, fold the opponent's arm across his body
Kong - empty, to suddenly move away from a push leaving the opponent off balance
Huo - lively, everything should be done in a lively manner

See Internal Martial Arts, October 1999.

[Bao]

Well, methods aren't directions. But all methods will use left or right, forward or back.

The five directions is a Chinese philosophical concept prevalent in Daoist cosmology and belong to the terminology of Tai Chi Chuan. The five directions generate space, generating space generates movement, this movement is the five elements, through the creative force of the five elements, the eight trigrams are born. Organizing every combination of the trigrams in each direction means the 64 hexagrams. This is the origin of the concept of the 13 principles. The five directions are thus merely meant as directions and there was originally never any intention to regard them as techniques. Why? Because every posssible technique can already be found in combining the 8 techniques with the 8 techniques in the five directions. They are already there, so any other technique on top of this would be superficial. Now, I can only speak of what is logical according to classical theory. How people interprete it nowadays is different. If Chen Xiaowang can call the five directions whatever he wants, so can you.

[johnwang]

If Chen Xiaowang can call the five directions whatever he wants, so can you.

I truly don't know by understanding

- front, back, left, right,
- east, south, west, north,

can help you to improve your MA skill in any way.

But if I know how to

- move my body side way,
- rotate my body,
- jump up,
- hop back,

it can help my combat skill.

Here is an example of "挪(Nuo) - hop back".

[Bao]

If Chen Xiaowang can call the five directions whatever he wants, so can you.

I truly don't know by understanding

- front, back, left, right,
- east, south, west, north,

can help you to improve your MA skill in any way.

Yes!
My point exactly.

[johnwang]

Believe it or not, I have seen someone gave a 2 hours workshop just for "定(Ding) - center". The most abstract workshop that I have ever seen was a 2 hours Zimen principle "残(Can) - injure".

[wayne hansen]

Are there any examples of Hans tai chi on line
The only thing I can find is a northern Shaolin broadsword form

[BruceP]

Look is focused, pointed,...or, the actual thing

Gaze is diffuse, peripheral,...or, what is made to seem to be

Both are abstract, conceptual maybes, which frog off of whatever's happening - like context.

Teng-no and Shan-chan are 'attitudes' or intent for training and applying Thirteen Torso Methods

[johnwang]

Are there any examples of Hans tai chi on line?

Here is my long fist teacher Li Mao-Ching's "Han Taiji". He is 91 years old today. He learned from GM Han Chin-Tang.

[Bao]

Are there any examples of Hans tai chi on line?

Here is my long fist teacher Li Mao-Ching's "Han Taiji". He is 91 years old today. He learned from GM Han Chin-Tang.

How many years ago was that? The vid was put up 2011, but how much older is he? Look at his back and neck when he moves, very flexible for a late eighty years old. Loved that performance, great shenfa.

[johnwang]

How many years ago was that? The vid was put up 2011, but how much older is he? Look at his back and neck when he moves, very flexible for a late eighty years old. Loved that performance, great shenfa.

Not sure when that clip was made. This is his current picture.

[Bao]

Not so much difference from the vids that I can see. He looks amazing for 91 years old. You can see from his posture what good mobility his body has. Awesome, I am very impressed.

[Steve James]

Well, methods aren't directions. But all methods will use left or right, forward or back.

The five directions is a Chinese philosophical concept prevalent in Daoist cosmology and belong to the terminology of Tai Chi Chuan. The five directions generate space, generating space generates movement, this movement is the five elements, through the creative force of the five elements, the eight trigrams are born. Organizing every combination of the trigrams in each direction means the 64 hexagrams. This is the origin of the concept of the 13 principles. The five directions are thus merely meant as directions and there was originally never any intention to regard them as techniques. Why? Because every posssible technique can already be found in combining the 8 techniques with the 8 techniques in the five directions. They are already there, so any other technique on top of this would be superficial. Now, I can only speak of what is logical according to classical theory. How people interprete it nowadays is different. If Chen Xiaowang can call the five directions whatever he wants, so can you.

Oh. Thanks.